Aikido Question

[JusticeZero]

Aikido as taught by Ueshiba contained 'Atemi' - strikes. They were used to set up techniques, mainly. Since then, overzealous and over-pacifistic students have in many cases removed the atemi, seeing them as counter to the philosophy -whether on not they were needed-. Ueshiba's art was not aggressive, but it contained "aggressive" techniques. Aikido draws from a Zen background, philosophically, and in Zen, in the proper state of mind you can do certain things that would seem "aggressive" without being aggressive your self, for instance, if you are calm and empty of thought, and you are attacked and respond with a killing blow with your sword, spiritually, the killing blow from the sword is seperate from you and you didn't do it, it was the universe doing it. (This gets misused, obviously, by overzealous pacifists trying to avoid responsibility for their violent and angry impulses rather than becoming comfortable with them)

[dtstiachi]

My uncle used to train in Aikido. He demonstrated a couple of techniques on me and they were quite painful. I would encourage you to try it out if you are interested.

[Samurai Shotokan]

That was a pretty good video. I would probably take aikido if i can ever find one around where i live. The katana kata at the end was cool but also like when one of the guys grabbed the staff and flipped the other guy over. The reason i asked if aikido hurt is because everyone moves so gracefully and it doesn't look destructive.

[JusticeZero]

Stand on a chair. Jump off and land on your back. That's what the "graceful, non-destructive" moves feel like.

[jedimc]

The kata is called the 8 direction strike, and yes it is painfull when you fall on your back or when they are doing sankyo, nikkyo or something to your hand.

[Samurai Shotokan]

You misunderstood when i what meant by graceful. i mean that you flow and redirect your enemys energy in Aikido rather that break somebodys ribs then put them into an armbar then trip them at the same time punch them in the head in karate.Thats why i said graceful non destructive as opposed to breaking someones ribs, arm ect before or during the take down

[Kam]

Samurai Shotokan - I study Aikido, it's my core art, been doing it for 9 years. Aikido has many different flavours these days; from soft and Ki/Chi centric to hard and competitive.

This is mainly due to the Japanese concept of Shu-Ha-Ri which are the three stages of learning an art going from merely 'monkey see, monkey do' to making the art 'your own'.

If you can find a good Aikido teacher, then it doesn't matter which of the afore-mentioned styles you learn, you will definitely get something out of it.

But first - and this is mainly directed at tsdshep - I must clear up some misconceptions most non-Aikidoka (Aikido students) have about the art. There are strikes in all the stlyes of Aikido I have practiced. Or more accurately all the sensei I have trained under taught me to strike as part of the techniques. I believe I was taught that way as strikes are and absolutely integral part of Aikido - for tsdshep, please go a find a copy of 'Budo' by O-sensei (Ueshiba Morihei) and take a look on the passage on striking in the first couple of pages. Then you may also want to count the number of strikes you see O-sensei performing as part of his techniques.

As for 'no aggression' - I have never been taught to be aggressive in any martial art I have studied - including Shotokan Karate and Wing Chun. I doubt there are many martial arts that do espouse 'aggression' as a valid mind-set for studying their art. Aggression is an emotional response due to stress or the like and is something that must be controlled - if possible - when in a physical altercation or you risk losing the fight.

....maybe tsdshep is refering to 'making the first move' or pre-emptive striking? If so - yes you can pre-emptively attack somone in Aikido when you are defending yourself. I now study Iwama-Ryu Aikido which was founded by a teacher called Saito Morihiro. He spent his entire adult life, from his late teens I believe, as - arguably - O-sensei's closest and longest serving, direct student (from 1946/47 to O-sensei's death). It was in the post-war period that O-Sensei started to call Aikido 'Aikido'! Saito sensei has vowed to transmit the Aikido that he was taught directly by O-Sensei as accurately as possible - and guess what, there are a whole set of techniques initiated by the defender (you) striking at your partners face to get him to react (block/defend) facilitating the move that you want to execute.

As for being graceful, yes Aikido can be graceful - it can appear that way because at the higher levels (which I am NO-WHERE near) you are taght to completely blend with and re-direct your opponents energy. You appear to be effortless and relaxed, mean-while there are people bouncing off you in all directions - and thes Ukes are trained in Aikido Ukemi (the flips and rolls). But some of the other poster's here are right: there's nothing graceful about executing these techniques for real - as I have found out first hand. The strikes can hurt and break bones, the throms are dangerous, and the locks can do a lot of damage.

[Kajukenbopr]

it is hard to master- you have to learn how to handle ur weight and your attackers weight perfectly.

you dont really hurt the attacker, msot ofthe techniques are pretty safe and will have the attacker get up without too much trouble. other times, the attacker will get hurt by falling onto the floor and stuff like that. the main focus is not hurting the attacker by hitting him but by letting him get hurt with his own energy.

quite interesting

[Bluetulipx]

One important aspect of Aikido is that it is done on a mat - not a hard floor. Therefore, it is not as painful as knocking someone down and banging their head on a concrete floor. As part of the warm ups, students do a variety of exercises including breakfalls (throwing yourself across the mat).

I started Aikido a couple of years ago when I came back to England. At first the idea of throwing myself across the mat seemed like a most absurb idea. Why, I asked myself, would anyone pay for this torture? However, I am slowly getting used to the concept and now I am able to throw myself on one side without causing much damage! I am going to start throwing myself on the other side soon.

What I like most of all about my club and my instructor is that I have stated that I want to do things at my own pace. This to me is very important. I am also in my thirties so age does sometimes have its advantages.

Anyway, for me, most of the time Aikido is a lot of fun. Sometimes people do things that cause a bit of pain, but as most of the people in my club are very nice then I find it hard to get upset when I know that someone accidentally caused me pain.

Aikido is about being gentle and using the opponents energy on them. Of course I am only an orange belt and have much to learn but I see many advantages of learning this. To me, it is the opposite to Tae Kwon Do (that I also study) -- absorb and deflect, rather than attack.

It is also interesting to watch people as they do techniques on me. As a woman who does Tae Kwon Do as well, then if people try a technique on me forcefully then it will not work (unless they break my arm, as they would out on the street).

Aikido on me is very effective when done gently. This actually makes it very clear to me how effective it really is.

I think sometimes for someone who has not attended Aikido before then it looks far more aggressive than the true nature of it is. Then again, I think most martial arts are seen differently from someone who has not actually done them. Oh, and of course, there is a lot of testosterone that is involved that may add to the displays.

Of course, black belts and higher, may have a very different opinion, as they have a lot more experience than me.

[Existence_is _suffering]

Stand on a chair. Jump off and land on your back. That's what the "graceful, non-destructive" moves feel like.

JusticeZero Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:52 am Post subject:

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Aikido as taught by Ueshiba contained 'Atemi' - strikes. They were used to set up techniques, mainly. Since then, overzealous and over-pacifistic students have in many cases removed the atemi, seeing them as counter to the philosophy -whether on not they were needed-. Ueshiba's art was not aggressive, but it contained "aggressive" techniques. Aikido draws from a Zen background, philosophically, and in Zen, in the proper state of mind you can do certain things that would seem "aggressive" without being aggressive your self, for instance, if you are calm and empty of thought, and you are attacked and respond with a killing blow with your sword, spiritually, the killing blow from the sword is seperate from you and you didn't do it, it was the universe doing it. (This gets misused, obviously, by overzealous pacifists trying to avoid responsibility for their violent and angry impulses rather than becoming comfortable with them)

Justice Zero, You have made my day... I read both of these in the middle of a library and had twenty-five people nearly hitting the roof when I burst out laughing/crying... Thank you

I know what you mean when you talk about these pseudo-pacifists.. I've only seen one example but there must be more out there! They think that using an art seen by most as a "soft/peaceful" art justifies the fact that they are just uncontrolled people who it seems, seek to not take responsibility for their own actions... I find it so annoying when people purposefully twist the meaning of something to suit them