tangsoodo VS taekwondo

[TSD Y049]

Sorry to get the facts wrong! I must have mis interpreted it.

[tufrthanu]

Perhaps the confusion comes in because there are both TKD and TSD Moo Duk Kwan schools...I don't know when that split happened but perhaps that was in the 60's.

[UpTheIrons]

The Moo Duk Kwan TSD/TKD split happened in the early 60's when the Korea Tae Kwon Do Association was getting established. The Korean gov't, influenced by Gen. Choi, essentially told all Korean black belts "join the KTA or lose gov't recognition". The reason was to establish one art instead of 9 Kwans, who were constantly fighting each other.

Almost all of them did. However, Hwang Kee wanted Moo Duk Kwan TSD to remain a traditional martial art and refused to join. Hence the split. The Moo Duk Kwan members who joined the KTA became Moo Duk Kwan TKD. The ones who stayed with Hwang remained TSD.

[Sam]

I always love it on forums when Korean history comes up.

Its so absolutely convoluted now that no one really knows for definite what happens. People who were actually there say different things to each other; people like Choi change their story over the years (compare 1965 publishing of encyclopedia 1999 edition).

All i would say is that coming from and ITF school i would agree Oh Do Kwan was definitely not one of the 1st 5; and the rest of what everyone is discussing will change depending on which art you study and under which GM if any at all....

one other thing, EternalRage that was a fantastic post, thank you, very rarely see someone cut through all the cr*p around korean history.....

[texasag]

So about half the Moo Duk Kwan joined the TKD movement, setting up Moo Duk Kwan Tae Kwon Do branches and schools. Richard Chun, author of Moo Duk Kwan Tae Kwon Do Vol 1 & Vol 2 (Ohara Publishing) as well as Tae Kwon Do is one of the more popular Moo Duk Kwan Tae Kwon Do practitioners. I myself got started in Moo Duk Kwan TKD under Grandmaster Ye Mo Ahn's chain of schools in Dallas, TX before joining a Soo Bahk Do school in college.

I'm a new poster and just happened to come across this thread. When were you studying under Ye Mo Ahn? I studied there from approx 1985 to 1996 or so.

[Sam]

officially in april on the 11th

[tsdtony]

according to the us panted office tkd was not patend until 1960. That could be were people get confused. But had ben and oficel art since 1952 i belave.But tkd and tsd trully have no link at all.There two completly difrent arts.Tsd is a tradisonal art.Were 90 percent of tkd schools avirtise sport karate,We punch kick and do hungs completly diffrent.tsd more focas on hip and real life spariing and selfdefince.Tkd little or no selfdefince sport sparring.And as far as i know in tkd there is no ground woork.The only link is parts of a name.Maybe a long time ago thay were simaler but not any more.I have never seen a tkd school that looks like tsd.At the same time i have never seen a tsd school look like a tkd school.

[UpTheIrons]

As far as using hip torque and pivot, the older Kwan-based Tae Kwon Do schools still practice this to make power. Older TKD resembles Tang Soo Do, and Tang Soo Do resembles Karate.

Don't forget, Hwang Kee was not the first to call his style Tang Soo Do. It was Won Kuk Lee, Chung Do Kwan founder. Kee was allowed to call his art TSD to attract more students by Lee and others. Lee's reputation was such that calling your art the same name as his was beneficial to other instructors.

In fact, within our TKD organization, we have always used older original terms for techniques rather than standardized WTF terms, even we practice WTF style.

[tsdtony]

even older tkd schools hip use is difrent from tsd.While you would like to clame are arts are look alike its just not true.I have heard many people say the atf is more liike tsd.But from what i see it nothing like .But maybe I am rong so if you know of a tkd school that resimbels tsd i would love to see it.By the way i never clamed hwang kee inventied tsd.He did invent the moodukkwan style of tsd.And moodukkwan tkd looks nothing like moodukkwan tsd.