tangsoodo VS taekwondo

[tsdshep]

I am hopeing some can help me with link between tsd and tkd. I know there suposed too be linked but thay look completly diffrent. IN my area at least.I was woundering if this is unaversol or just in my area.The tkd studio here uses no hands and looping kickes no or liiiittle self defince and no ground woork.I have mentined this befor and people keep telling me tkd and tsd are very simaler so i was woundering if you could givre me some web sites for tkd stuidos that teach a non sport criculam because in my are all we have compitishon tkd.Also i know much about the history of tsd but none of the history of tkd except what what the history of tsd tells us.I was woundering if its the same or if it differs

[EternalRage]

Tang Soo Do (aka Soo Bahk Do - founder renamed it in June 1970, but many that broke off from founder's organization kept the original name) was the style practiced at the Moo Duk Kwan, founded November 9th, 1945 by Hwang Kee (deceased, July 2002).

Tae Kwon Do was founded in the latter 1950s by efforts from Korean government and a General Choi Hong Hi of the South Korean army. After the Japanese Occupation of Korea ended in 1945, the cultural ban on Korea by Japan was lifted, and the oppressed Korean arts started to flourish. Martial arts schools opened up everywhere, the main 5 being the Chang Moo Kwan, Chung Do Kwan, Oh Do Kwan, Ji Do Kwan, and the aforementioned Moo Duk Kwan. The Korean government felt that it needed to reestablish the nation's identity through various cultural venues. For martial arts, it meant uniting all the Kwans together under one name, Tae Soo Do (later renamed Tae Kwon Do).

Hwang Kee and the Moo Duk Kwan fought for their right to stay separate from the Tae Kwon Do movement in the Korean Supreme Courts and won their battle. Therefore, Tang Soo Do remains a separate art.

The World Tae Kwon Do Federation (WTF) style TKD is probably what you refer to as "competition TKD" - training is mainly focused on developing fast economical kicks for competition olympic sparring. WTF TKD is mainly focused on competition, so all training is focused around the framework of the rules of competition, hence little emphasis on hands, groundwork.

Tang Soo Do still mostly adheres to its original traditions, opting not to evolve into a sport like TKD (and hence did not lose most of its fighting practicality). Tang Soo Do incorporates more hand techniques and kicking techniques utilizing more hip for power and stability (TKD kicks tend not to since at most amateur and beginner levels, such hip kicking would be slower than the "skip kicking" characteristic of today's olympic TKD).

Non competition oriented TKD is hard to find, other than that of the International Tae Kwon Do Federation (ITF) - originally based on the Oh Do Kwan (highly militaristic dojang). Their training is mostly more traditional, resembling Tang Soo Do closer than the WTF Olympic TKD.

As for the histories of TKD and TSD, TSD sometimes likes to focus on the fact that they are not sport oriented and how they survived the TKD movement. TKD histories, especially WTF, do not like to focus on the General Choi history. Therefore, history depends on which style, organization, or school you attend, because the first several generations of TKD and TSD practictioners are mostly still alive and will probably shape the history they want passed on to future generations.

[tsdshep]

Tank you so very much.You have no Idea how much that helped me.Because as you said each history wants too tell it there oun way.I dotn see how a skip would be fatser because you have too cover more ground.Also it seem too me that it would teligraph what your going to be doing since most of the time your not gunna leave the ground too puch.But thean agean i only have a littile over a year experance in the martial arts and its tangsoodo so i wouldent know how the skip woorks.Once agen ty so very much

[JaseP]

Don't forget that the Moo Duk Kwan fractured in the mid 1960s with roughly half of the Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan becoming the Tae Kwon Do Moo Duk Kwan... that 1/2 represented a significant number of the people calling themselves TaeKwonDo...

That's your main link.

[Kicks]

Wow, great stuff EternalRage. One of the best post on TKD/TSD history I've ever seen.

[tufrthanu]

Choi's Oh Do Kwan was NOT one of the original 5. The original 5 kwans were

Song Moo Kwan

Chung Do Kwan

Chang Moo Kwan

Ji Do Kwan

Moo Duk Kwan

[EternalRage]

Don't forget that the Moo Duk Kwan fractured in the mid 1960s with roughly half of the Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan becoming the Tae Kwon Do Moo Duk Kwan... that 1/2 represented a significant number of the people calling themselves TaeKwonDo...

That's your main link.

Oh whoops, thanks, I forgot all about that. Yeah so apparently after the first time Hwang Kee tried to get an organization up and running (Korea Soo Bahk Do Association) and failed, about half the Moo Duk Kwan decided that a government backed unified system didn't sound so bad. After all, the government restricted any opening of Tang Soo Do/Soo Bahk Do schools, and froze most of their activities. Some members of the SBD Federation as well as other Tang Soo Do associations often portray some lingering bitterness towards the Moo Duk Kwan members who left for TKD, but honestly who could blame them? The government set up state of the art facilities, finances, advertising, etc etc.

So about half the Moo Duk Kwan joined the TKD movement, setting up Moo Duk Kwan Tae Kwon Do branches and schools. Richard Chun, author of Moo Duk Kwan Tae Kwon Do Vol 1 & Vol 2 (Ohara Publishing) as well as Tae Kwon Do is one of the more popular Moo Duk Kwan Tae Kwon Do practitioners. I myself got started in Moo Duk Kwan TKD under Grandmaster Ye Mo Ahn's chain of schools in Dallas, TX before joining a Soo Bahk Do school in college.

[EternalRage]

Choi's Oh Do Kwan was NOT one of the original 5. The original 5 kwans were

Song Moo Kwan

Chung Do Kwan

Chang Moo Kwan

Ji Do Kwan

Moo Duk Kwan

This is very interesting, as one of my sources says that the original 5 are the ones I listed in my previous postings. However, I have seen different combinations of kwans listed in other sources - some even go as to say that there were an original 9, including the Song Moo Kwan, the YMCA Kwon Bup, and some others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

Again this goes with the concept that certain schools, instructors, organizations, etc etc like to report histories differently, whether for political or personal reasons (or maybe they just don't know).

EDIT: Ok so I looked up what it says in Hwang Kee's Soo Bahk Do Volume 1 and this is what it says:

"1.) Moo Duk Kwan (headed by Hwang Kee, in Seoul)

2.) Yon Moo Kwan (headed by Chun Sang Sup, in Seoul)

3.) YMCA Kwon Pup (Headed by Pyong In Yun, in Seoul)

4.) Chung Do Kwan (headed by Won Kuk Lee, in Seoul) and

5.) Song Moo Kwan (headed by No Byong Jik, at Kai Sung)."

There were other kwans after this, such as the Han Moo Kwan, Oh Do Kwan, Kuk Mo Kwan, and others...

Edited April 23, 2005 by EternalRage

[tufrthanu]

YMCA Kwon Bup = Ji Do Kwan. The original kwans were all formed between 1944 and 1947. Choi's Oh Do Kwan was not formed until 1954.

[tsdshep]

I study under grandmaster clingan who sudeyd under gramndmaster hwang kee and grandmaster yi.There were 15 difrent kwans.And if the history is right on the link between tsd and tsd thean way does tkd look so diffrent i do not understand i dont see how the arts are even connected anymore .Thay look so diffrent.But thean agen i am just a beginner.