Karate training vs. Boxing Training

[Rich_2k3]

Boxing training is more focused on body conditioning, ie. theres alot more bag work, focus pads, skipping etc. My style of karate is heavily focused on boxing and kickboxing training to improve fitness.

[goju8]

typo, i met to write They vary very much...

[SevenStar]

While those are the workouts of professional boxers- not everyone who wants to learn boxing has to do that. They do have to be in shape, of course, but training a few days a week is okay for those of us who simply can't do anymore. Still, you make excellent points a lot of karate guys should think about regarding conditioning.

the training will be the same - frequency depends on that of the boxer. roadwork is the lone option - other than that, you do what the rest do, whether you intend on competing or not.

[Radok]

If every Karate school was run like that, Karate would suffer less defeats at the hands of boxing and kickboxing. However, Karate attracts a group of people that wants belts. Kickboxing and boxing attract the group that want to bash some heads.

[AnonymousOne]

If every Karate school was run like that, Karate would suffer less defeats at the hands of boxing and kickboxing. However, Karate attracts a group of people that wants belts. Kickboxing and boxing attract the group that want to bash some heads.

I agree to some extent. When I first went into Karate in 1964 you were expected to train very hard.

By the 1980's there came many schools and easier training systems. Our school was heavily effected by these "easy training systems", in terms of student numbers.

Only the geniune hard core students stayed on. People either dropped out or went for the easy way to a dan grade by joining a McDojo.

It saddens me to see such a noble art being destroyed by lazy money grabbing "persons".

In the 1960's Karate, in our country, had a reputation of being a fiercely tough martial art. Now the general public views Karate through Hollywood eyes. They see a high kicking Jumpin Jehosaphat punched out by a one hit boxing wonder.

But all is not lost. There are still true hardcore practitioners out there that train like hell, like they used to.

One of the reasons I stopped teaching years ago apart from the logistics of it, was because people would come into the dojo and soon leave because it was too hard. The western mind is lazy. They want a fast way to the riches of fighting and/or fitness. This can be clearly seen by the success of * exercise equipment sold in informercials. "Get a ripped body in only 5 minutes per day".

Soon I expect Guthry Renker to be advertising "Be a Black Belt in 5 minutes a day and become a karate killer".

Still, I cannot change the world, but I can change myself.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

I think the one thing that everybody is overlooking here is the difference between a martial artists "end goals", and a boxers.

A boxer trains to stand toe to toe with ONE other boxer for 10-12 rounds while wearing gloves, a mouth piece and a groin protector. A martial artist, in the old traditional sense, trains to protect his life against one or more armed, or unarmed opponents, and to escape that confrontation with their life intact.

A boxer trains to fight for possibly an extended period of time going nearly full out for 2-3 minutes at a time, whereas a martial artist trains to disable or escape an attacker as quickly as possible.

There are a multitude of other differences, such as a boxer trains to fight in a ring with a certain type of material under his feet, and special shoes on, and a martial artist should be training for any sort of environment...from sand, to hard flooring, to ice, to tile, etc.

As a martial artist of quite a few years, I have never been in a street/real fight personally that lasted more than 1 minute from its onset, to its conclusion. I have successfully defended myself a number of times against younger, stronger and multiple opponents, and once against a weapon. I am certainly not a super human or in anywhere close to the physical conditioning of a boxer in fighting shape.

I have never had the desire to train as a professional, or amateur fighter and go into a ring to try to knock a person out that had never wronged me. If I had that sort of desire, yes, i would adopt a more "boxer" mentality and train for that goal. Sport oriented martial artists certainly would benefit from a boxer training regimine also, as their "end goals" are similar to a boxers.

I have no problems if someone wants to train like a boxer, but a non-sport/competative martial artist doesn't need (IMHO) to train to that extent to survive a street encounter. If all we were allowed to use were our hands, and only certain types of blows wee allowed to be thrown and only at a small number of targets while wearing heavily padded gloves, then yes, more conditioning would be necessary I'm sure, as injurying an opponent would be much more difficult than it is.

That's my $.02 worth anyway.

[AnonymousOne]

Thank you Shorinryu Sensei you make several excellent points.

For me personally I gave up going into contest some 25 years ago. All my MA training has been pretty much focused on self defense.

One thing I have learnt over the many years is that the greater your physical endurance, the more training you can do and the more training you can do the greater your skills grow.

I have been in a multitude of street fights and yes they dont last very long at all. You dont need aerobic endurance for street fights but anaerobic endurance or in other words - explosive power capabilities. You have to go from 0 to 100% super fast.

I have found that being able to endure high output of work (aerobic and anaerobic training) allows ones reactionary skills, power, co-ordination (and all the other vitals needed in a successful street fight) to be developed at a far greater rate.

That was really my original point. I wasnt meaning all MA should prepare for 15, 3 minute rounds, but to develop the ability to endure long training, practising the development of necessary skills.

It seems to me, in ages gone by, that was how the old masters trained their students.

Reading how Funakoshi, Miyagi, and many others were trained makes me realise how different Karate training is today.

Certainly from the records of Funakoshi and Miyagi, they were trained to failure & utter exhaustion, to the point of feinting; seemed to have been the norm.

I found this philosophy of training much more acceptable to the Japanese mind in the times I have been there, compared to the western mind.

[Venrix]

I think the one thing that everybody is overlooking here is the difference between a martial artists "end goals", and a boxers.

Your entire post was 100% on the money. Great stuff. 100% agreement from me.

Of course, your points do not just apply to the comparison between martial arts and boxing. They simply compare the difference between any martial art practised as a fighting system and any martial arts that is practised as a sport.

The training regime outlined in the original post is all about sport. Boxing is a Martial Art. It is an art that limits itself to the use of fist strikes and avoidance techniques. Nevertheless, there is boxing as a fighting system and boxing as a sport.

The training involved in boxing as a sport is no more intense than any other combat sport.

-V-

[SevenStar]

If every Karate school was run like that, Karate would suffer less defeats at the hands of boxing and kickboxing. However, Karate attracts a group of people that wants belts. Kickboxing and boxing attract the group that want to bash some heads.

I agree to some extent. When I first went into Karate in 1964 you were expected to train very hard.

By the 1980's there came many schools and easier training systems. Our school was heavily effected by these "easy training systems", in terms of student numbers.

Only the geniune hard core students stayed on. People either dropped out or went for the easy way to a dan grade by joining a McDojo.

It saddens me to see such a noble art being destroyed by lazy money grabbing "persons".

In the 1960's Karate, in our country, had a reputation of being a fiercely tough martial art. Now the general public views Karate through Hollywood eyes. They see a high kicking Jumpin Jehosaphat punched out by a one hit boxing wonder.

But all is not lost. There are still true hardcore practitioners out there that train like hell, like they used to.

One of the reasons I stopped teaching years ago apart from the logistics of it, was because people would come into the dojo and soon leave because it was too hard. The western mind is lazy. They want a fast way to the riches of fighting and/or fitness. This can be clearly seen by the success of * exercise equipment sold in informercials. "Get a ripped body in only 5 minutes per day".

Soon I expect Guthry Renker to be advertising "Be a Black Belt in 5 minutes a day and become a karate killer".

Still, I cannot change the world, but I can change myself.

didn't american kickboxing start because they thought that karate was too soft? I agree that the typical western mind is lazy, and I think properly trained, karate is awesome. One of the best MA I've ever seen is my friend/former coach, but he was born, raised and trained in japan. I think karate in America was really just a fad - something new that people had not seen. before karate, it was kung fu, and before that, judo. After karate came the ninja craze. Since you have people that are affected by fads - people that flock to what's hot, you will definitely have a rise of McDojos, as that is essentially what the majority of people want.

[SevenStar]

I think the one thing that everybody is overlooking here is the difference between a martial artists "end goals", and a boxers.

A boxer trains to stand toe to toe with ONE other boxer for 10-12 rounds while wearing gloves, a mouth piece and a groin protector. A martial artist, in the old traditional sense, trains to protect his life against one or more armed, or unarmed opponents, and to escape that confrontation with their life intact.

A boxer trains to fight for possibly an extended period of time going nearly full out for 2-3 minutes at a time, whereas a martial artist trains to disable or escape an attacker as quickly as possible.

There are a multitude of other differences, such as a boxer trains to fight in a ring with a certain type of material under his feet, and special shoes on, and a martial artist should be training for any sort of environment...from sand, to hard flooring, to ice, to tile, etc.

As a martial artist of quite a few years, I have never been in a street/real fight personally that lasted more than 1 minute from its onset, to its conclusion. I have successfully defended myself a number of times against younger, stronger and multiple opponents, and once against a weapon. I am certainly not a super human or in anywhere close to the physical conditioning of a boxer in fighting shape.

I have never had the desire to train as a professional, or amateur fighter and go into a ring to try to knock a person out that had never wronged me. If I had that sort of desire, yes, i would adopt a more "boxer" mentality and train for that goal. Sport oriented martial artists certainly would benefit from a boxer training regimine also, as their "end goals" are similar to a boxers.

I have no problems if someone wants to train like a boxer, but a non-sport/competative martial artist doesn't need (IMHO) to train to that extent to survive a street encounter. If all we were allowed to use were our hands, and only certain types of blows wee allowed to be thrown and only at a small number of targets while wearing heavily padded gloves, then yes, more conditioning would be necessary I'm sure, as injurying an opponent would be much more difficult than it is.

That's my $.02 worth anyway.

I dunno how signficant those differences really are. there was recently an incdient in which a thai boxer chased three men out of his home who broke in, assaulted his mother and tried to rob him. his injuries were minor, AND the three men were armed. Is that what he was training for? No, but his training served him well, obviously. A sport fighter will train to endure that long number of rounds his fight will last, but not unlike the TMA, he wants to end it as fast as possible. The difference is that he recognizes that that is not always possible.

your last comment about target areas doesn't really apply to MMA, and they have the same issues with fight duration at times. In Pride, you can kick downed opponents. there are really only a few areas that are off limits to strike. The issue is that you have two highly trained guys fighting eachother. in the street, that most likely will not be the case.