taiji fajin Posted April 19, 2005 Posted April 19, 2005 When you think of a joint lock being done in a real fight, do you think it (on average) would be used to break bones, end the fight, etc, or do you think it would more be used to cause pain (and yes, possibly break bones or something else) but more importantly to set up whoever you are fighting so you can strike him? Do you practice it in the way you feel you would most likely use it? How do you train dynamic joint locking?Do you train joint locking counters? Fetch Daddy's blue fright wig! I must be handsome when I unleash my rage.
JaseP Posted April 19, 2005 Posted April 19, 2005 Yes. Yes. Train like they will be used, building speed and smoothness of technique,... and Yes. Master Jason Powlette5th Dan, Tang Soo Do--Tang Soo!!!
Jinxx0r Posted April 19, 2005 Posted April 19, 2005 When you think of a joint lock being done in a real fight, do you think it (on average) would be used to break bones, end the fight, etc, or do you think it would more be used to cause pain (and yes, possibly break bones or something else) but more importantly to set up whoever you are fighting so you can strike him? Do you practice it in the way you feel you would most likely use it? How do you train dynamic joint locking?Do you train joint locking counters?Most of our locks seem to involve the wrist. When going through Ho Sin Sool (self defense) our first movements are supposed to be good enough to stop the conflict. The rest of the movements are there for backup in case you mess up your first move. My Sa Bom is fond of saying "There are no rules in self defense". Do whatever it takes to get yourself out of harms way. This means it would be dictated by the situation. I'd like to think my first reaction would be to snap their wrist off. In our dojang we practice it statically (just standing face to face) to work on the actual technique and we practice it dynamically, I grab my partner and push/pull them (so you can work on footwork too). Another drill we do, which is actually kind of funny, is during the exercise, we're supposed to yell, shout, put pressure on the defender. The idea being that you can learn to do it under pressure.We work on this a LOT. I pity the person who ever grabs me unknowingly, hehe... My Sa Bom LOVES self defense so we work on it a lot. "In the beginner's mind there are many possibilites, but in the expert's there are few."
taiji fajin Posted April 19, 2005 Author Posted April 19, 2005 Yes. Yes. Train like they will be used, building speed and smoothness of technique,... and Yes.How do you "train like they will be used"? Do you spare / grapple, and allow joint locks in that? It seems joint locks there would either have to be done slowly (making them a lot easier to get out of) or have a high risk of being pushed too far and hurting someone. Fetch Daddy's blue fright wig! I must be handsome when I unleash my rage.
JaseP Posted April 20, 2005 Posted April 20, 2005 How do you "train like they will be used"? Do you spare / grapple, and allow joint locks in that? It seems joint locks there would either have to be done slowly (making them a lot easier to get out of) or have a high risk of being pushed too far and hurting someone.You train them progressively to the point where practice with the partner gets progressively more realistic (that is not reacting simply to allow the technique to work). Not all joint locks end in broken joints or bones. That's a matter of the particular technique and control. Master Jason Powlette5th Dan, Tang Soo Do--Tang Soo!!!
Mr. Mike Posted April 20, 2005 Posted April 20, 2005 the situation would dictate the application. If I needed to, I would snap a joint clean through, or if needed to use a lock to get attention or to escort, then I could do that too.I guess it depends upon the level of the threat...if somebody comes at me with intent to kill, and won't stop till the get there, I won't bother trying to escort them or have them submit. If it isn't life-threatening, and they just need a gentle reminder to leave a situation alone/act like a gentleman/whatever, then sure, use the lock to get their attention without having to strike them, or lock up and go for the ground. When a man's fortunate time comes, he meets a good friend;When a man has lost his luck, he meets a beautiful woman.-anonymous
Belasko Posted May 2, 2005 Posted May 2, 2005 irregardless of technique be it a joint lock, punch, kick or whatever. The extent and force to which it is delivered needs to be carefully applied, concept of escalation of force. I would hope that a person would not apply full force to their friend for some other innebriated person at the bar because they had too much to drink and were acting like an idiot. However if said person were to make you feel that your life was in danger applying the technique and following it through completely may very well be justified. Basically it is a situational thing. Most street fight though don't give you a lot of time to consider it though. Getting a blackbelt just says you have learned the basics and are ready to actually study the form as an art.
Aodhan Posted May 2, 2005 Posted May 2, 2005 When you think of a joint lock being done in a real fight, do you think it (on average) would be used to break bones, end the fight, etc, or do you think it would more be used to cause pain (and yes, possibly break bones or something else) but more importantly to set up whoever you are fighting so you can strike him? Do you practice it in the way you feel you would most likely use it? How do you train dynamic joint locking?Do you train joint locking counters?If I was to be in a real street fight, I don't want to be close enough to have to do joint locks. However, if I am forced, I will use a joint lock with enough force to disable the joint. My goal is the minimum application of force that will allow me to retreat from the situation.We train joint locks with progressive techniques, starting with single wrist grab releases, going up to 6 and 7 move release/counter/lock type sequences.Referring the inebriated person in the other post, my favorite saying to people that hear I'm a BB and say "Boy, bet you think you're tough" is to respond "Well, it really doesn't matter how tough I think I am, what matters is how tough YOU think I am."Aodhan There are some people who live in a dream world, and there are some who face reality; and then there are those who turn one into the other.-Douglas Everett, American hockey player
Belasko Posted May 2, 2005 Posted May 2, 2005 it really doesn't matter how tough I think I am, what matters is how tough YOU think I am."Aodhantruer words are rarely heard Getting a blackbelt just says you have learned the basics and are ready to actually study the form as an art.
JaseP Posted May 3, 2005 Posted May 3, 2005 ...Referring the inebriated person in the other post, my favorite saying to people that hear I'm a BB and say "Boy, bet you think you're tough" is to respond "Well, it really doesn't matter how tough I think I am, what matters is how tough YOU think I am."AodhanI had a situation where a big guy (He had about 40 lbs of muscle and 4 inches on me) had a scrap with one of my friends,...He had a hold of my lapels (so don't so it doesn't happen), after I stepped in between. He said to me,... "I know your some kind of black belt,... I'm not afraid of you." I said to him, calm as Summer day,... "It's doesn't matter one bit if you are afraid or not,... it's not going to change the outcome...". And I positioned myself for a couple of options I had...He pushed away, and said "I'm not afraid of you!", and backed down. I preferred that to kicking his *... Master Jason Powlette5th Dan, Tang Soo Do--Tang Soo!!!
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