Whats the REAL deal with martial arts today?

[Cmon]

Lots of people need to learn how to quickly injure someone, its not unique to certain countries.

I know it isn't unique to certain countries but it is most common in countries like these.

It sounds as if you're trying to suggest that theres some secretive way to apply a pressure point or death touch on someone, or that theres an "easy" way out of training.

Im not saying that these people do not need to train. But the training style is different obviously UFC contendors need to be more athletic.

Im absolutely sure you're allowed to do it in the UFC, and in fact its actually happened. Just recently there was an incident with Frank Mir and Tim Sylvia where Mir applied an armlock on Sylvia and broke his arm in two. It had also happened with Yoshida vs Don Frye.

Ok fair enough you've seen broken bones in UFC. But have you seen a man on UFC grab hold of someone's arm and then smash their elbow? No, you see armlocks armabrs etc and they are done to cause pain and yes it causes pain because you are bending the arm and bone the wrong way. But they do it slowly as it causes more pain you don't just see em grab hold of the arm and *yank* the bones broken they do it slowly to get the submission.

Broken bones as a result of submission attempts are not uncommon, and they're certainly not accidental. The whole idea of putting someone in an armlock is to break their arm. Thats were the whole idea of tapping out comes from- your arm is about to break, or your about to lose conciousness and pass out. Tapping out is a quick way to give up the fight and acknowledge that the other person has won. Its basically saying "You've got the hold, I cant escape, you've won the fight, you dont need to break my arm or choke me unconcious.

You see armlocks armabrs etc and they are done to cause pain and yes it causes pain because you are bending the arm and bone the wrong way. But they do it slowly as it causes more pain you don't just see em grab hold of the arm and *yank* the bones broken and then get up and go for the other arm. They do it slowly to get the submission. If the bone breaks while doing ther submission fair enough it happens but it happens because the guy has failed to tap but the guy doing the armloc etc wouldn't gone out to brake his arm he would have gone out to get the submission.

[Gumbi]

Ok fair enough you've seen broken bones in UFC. But have you seen a man on UFC grab hold of someone's arm and then smash their elbow? No, you see armlocks armabrs etc and they are done to cause pain and yes it causes pain because you are bending the arm and bone the wrong way. But they do it slowly as it causes more pain you don't just see em grab hold of the arm and *yank* the bones broken they do it slowly to get the submission.

Joint locks are done to break the joint, not cause pain (although pain is natrually accompanied by the lock). Something along the lines of a muscle crusher, such as a bicep slicer or calf crusher is intended to cause pain. Submissions are also not done slowly by any means. When someone gets a hold of whichever limb, they crank the hell out of it. I cant imagine a single armbar attempt that was done slowly, but bear in mind the guy who's getting his arm hyperextended is going to be fighting with everything hes got to avoid that from happening. Submission holds are done quickly with virtual disregard for opponents in competition- its on him, not you, to tap out if he doesnt want to get injured.

They do it slowly to get the submission. If the bone breaks while doing ther submission fair enough it happens but it happens because the guy has failed to tap but the guy doing the armloc etc wouldn't gone out to brake his arm he would have gone out to get the submission.

A good video for you to see would be Frank Mir's highlight video. You can download it at https://www.subfighter.com

Mir has been quoted as saying "I dont care if you tap, I dont train to make people tap- tapping doesnt mean anything to me. I train to actually break your limb, to choke you out. I realize that the guys Im fighting could care less about tapping. If you tap before that, kudo's to you, I dont have to break it, and you dont have to go to the hospital."

[Mr Pockets]

Mir has been quoted as saying "I dont care if you tap, I dont train to make people tap- tapping doesnt mean anything to me. I train to actually break your limb, to choke you out. I realize that the guys Im fighting could care less about tapping. If you tap before that, kudo's to you, I dont have to break it, and you dont have to go to the hospital."

That is how anyone trains to make someone tap- because it's virtually the same thing. However, I think Mir is telling a sort of half truth- because in real life when you get an armbar you crank on the thing hard and fast and snap the thing before they even feel the pain. In the cage, you get it and put pressure so they know to tap, but you don't just pull their elbow through their skin with all your might.

[ovine king]

don't forget that in the ring, where you have tow people who know what they are doing, things are going to look 'slow' because the guy on which the lock is being applied knows how to resist.

it's not like the guy applying is doing it 'slow' because he wants to; it's because he's trying to make a guy who knows how to do the same things to him, tap out.

[Gumbi]

because in real life when you get an armbar you crank on the thing hard and fast and snap the thing before they even feel the pain. In the cage, you get it and put pressure so they know to tap, but you don't just pull their elbow through their skin with all your might.

And why wouldnt you do that? Let me ask of you- do you think the pain all of a sudden stops or becomes non existent after the arm is broken? An arm that is already broken being cranked will hurt a hell of a lot more than a healthy arm being cranked.

There was nothing slow or gentle about the armbar he put on Sylvia. Many guys wont tap until you break their arm, at which point it hurts a hell of a lot more.

When you throw a jonit lock on someone, its not like you're being "oh, excuse me, let me lock your joint here so I can get the tap." You grab it and yank the hell out of it. Nothing slow about it, and even after the arm is broken, it can still continue to be cranked.

[honour is life]

personally i think that if people who train for ufc make a statememnt like that then they should be thrown out of the sport. i do believe that if the person having their arm cranked doesnt tap then its ok to break the arm, but to not give the person a chance to tap is just careless and a complete disregard for the ideas of the sport.

[Gumbi]

To apply a submission slowly is to give an opponent more time to escape it.

Everyone who's thrown a submission in MMA has done so quickly and with as much power as possible. Most people tap out quickly, and often there isnt much damage done to the joint.

To say that you need to apply a submission slowly is to say that a striker has to double check to see if his opponent is ok after each hit. Thats the job of the referee, not the fighters.

[honour is life]

no, i understand the need to apply the submission quickly, but to snap on with no intention to allow the person to tap is irresponsible

[Mr Pockets]

Sure you yank the hell out of it, but most locks they get could be applied faster and harder, and easily break in a more lethal situation. Even in a situation where the guy is screwed and there is no defending the lock, most guys in the cage wont just thrust their hips through the guys elbow in one swift arm-breaking motion.

[mai tai]

if i can (especally with a new guy, since most dont know they are in trouble until its too late) i apply the lock fast and crank it slow.

take for example an armbar from full mount,once my legs are over ther body and head and there elbow is past my cup. i can put the lock on as slow as i like. so ill put the first part on fast. the crank slow.

some moves dont allow for that. like an arm bar with the leg over the head and the other leg has a knee in the side. (ussually applied from side mount). this move i have less control so i have to snap it on.