Naha-te and Shuri-te styles.

[Smitty]

Ok, from what I understand, most of the Okinawan Styles derive from either Naha-te or Shuri-te. Can someone correct me if I'm wrong, and tell me what the derived styles are, and how they're different? I think I read something a while back saying the Naha styles are "close in", whereas the Shuri styles are "distance" fighting systems. Just trying to get my facts straight.

[AnonymousOne]

3 styles. Naha-te, Shuri-te and Tomari-te

It is said by some past masters that Nahe-te is better for larger people and Shuri-te and Tomari-te is better for smaller people.

The school I am in is a mix of all 3

[Shorin Ryuu]

Yes, it is Shuri-Te, Naha-Te and Tomari-Te. Tomari-Te was subsumed into Shuri-Te, more evident in styles like Shobayashi Shorin Ryu that follow the teachings of Kyan Chotoku.

I disagree with Funakoshi's statement (in Karate-Do Kyohan, where most people get this from) that Shorei (Naha) styles are for larger people and Shorin (Shuri) styles are for smaller people. Both main branches have kata that can suit large or small people, and to be accurate, personality and body structure really have no bearing on the type of karate you take. The kata are all adaptable to suit your body type rather than choosing kata based on your body type.

What's more, in Karate-Do Kyohan, Funakoshi classifies Tekki (Naihanchi), Jutte (Jitte), Hangetsu (Shuri Seisan) and Jion as Shorei kata when in fact none of these are actually Naha-Te kata. They are all kata you will find in Shorin Ryu styles rather than Naha-Te styles. For that matter, none of the kata mentioned in Karate-Do Kyohan are Naha-Te kata.

A very generalized comparison of Shuri and Naha Te styles is that Shuri tends to emphasize more natural breathing while Naha Te emphasizes artificial breath control. Both Naha and Shuri employ hard and soft techniques. Naha Te also tends to be more "closer" to its Chinese origins, although you can identify Chinese concepts in both styles.

As for one being a "close" and one being a "distance" style, I find such classification invalid. Both styles tend to be close range fighting with an emphasis of debilitating the opponent before, during and after a takedown, which I feel is the focus of both styles.

Goju Ryu's emphasis on things like hojo undo may be a source of the perception that Naha styles are for bigger more muscular people, but it isn't uncommon for Shorin stylists to use the equipment as well (I do). That being said, sometimes Goju Ryu stylists will eschew the more finer, manipulative grappling of Shorin Ryu and go for the skillful manipulation of raw destructive power in their grappling. A Shorin Ryu stylist may strike something while grappling when a Goju Ryu stylist would just tear it up while grappling, for example. A gross generalization, so don't jump all over me. Perhaps the perception that Goju Ryu is more of a "close" style than Shorin Ryu comes from the fact that a lot of Goju Ryu masters look very frightening up close. Some of them can just lay hands on you and not even worry about technique, they'll just rip you up good...combine that with knowledge of technique, and it's even worse...

Neither one is better than the other. In the old days, it wasn't uncommon for people to have trained both in Shuri and Naha styles, even to be masters in both. There have also been cross-influences both ways on the development of Shuri and Naha styles.

[P.A.L]

Naha-te :

Goju Ryu

Uichi ryu

Ryuei Ryu

influnced by Tiger fist and Whooping crane and 5 animal kongFu,Chin Na ,created and developed by civilians in Naha area

lower stances, powerfull punches, sticky hand blocks, controlled breathing

basic katas: higaonna Sanchin,Miyagi Sanchin,Tensho

Shuri te:

Shorin ryu Matsumura seito (Bubishi Matsumura,Nabe Matsumura,Hohen Soken)

Shorin ryu kobayashi (By Chibana)

Shorin ryu shaolin (i think this is Seibukan)(By shimabukuru)

shorin ryu Matsubayashi (influ. By Tomari Te)(By Nagamine)

okinawan kempo (influ. by Tomari Te)(by Nakamura)

mixture of white crane, 5 animals kongFu, Sakugawa Te,Aiki Jujutsu , mostly used by palace gaurds in shuri,

high stances, natural breathing, speedy moves, positioning,

Basic katas: shorinji Sanchin,Naihanchi

[nago]

Uechi-Ryu is commonly grouped with Naha Te because of the circular stepping, breathing and lack of kiai, but Uechi Ryu was brought directly from China with no influence from Higaonna, Miyagi or Matsumura (shuri te) and was not developed anywhere near Naha. When listed in the official publications of Okinawa Uechi Ryu stands as a separate style with no association to any of the former "Te" groupings.

[harleyt26]

I have been told by my sensei that the okinawans refer to Naha Te as new karate,how new would it be in relation to the other earlier Te systems?And how was it formed?On its own or by blending other systems?

[Master Jules]

Kanryo Higashionna, after his study in China with Ru Ru Ko, and Arakaki, returned to Okinawa, and brought back only 8 kata...they were :

Sanchin, Seiyunchin, Shisochin, Seisan, Sanseiru, Sepai, Kururunfa, and Suparenpei (Pechurin). He introduced his style, which he only called Naha-Te, after his city's name in 1905. Some of his top students were Chojun Miyagi (Goju Ryu), Kyoda Juhatsu (Toon Ryu), Higa Seko (Shodokan), and Mabuni Kenwa (Shito Ryu).

BTW.....excellent post ShorinRyuu

[Dark Shogun]

Just a coupe of questions:

P.A.L,

What sort of Aki Jujutsu influenced Shuri Te? Would it have influenced Naha Te?

Master Jules,

Where did Saifa come from?

[Smitty]

Master Jules,

Where did Saifa come from?

I'm not Master Jules, but if I remember correctly, Saifa was created by Miyagi Sensi.

[P.A.L]

Just a coupe of questions:

P.A.L,

What sort of Aki Jujutsu influenced Shuri Te? Would it have influenced Naha Te?

Master Jules,

Where did Saifa come from?

you can find some good articles on the web, I refer you to this one to start

http://kempo.4mg.com/articles/shaolin.htm