Karate do Kyohan and Bunkai

[Beer-monster]

Hi all, like many of you have I've been reading Funakoshi's Karate-do Kyohan, and am finding it an interesting read.

However one element that seems to stick at me is the bunkai described as the application for various kata movements. Most of them seem to defy reality and do not seem to be methods of practical self defense.

For example in reference to the knifehand strike followed by the mae front kick in Heian (pinan) Yondan.

The purpose of this technique is to break the elbow of the opponents attacking arm with a kick while holding and drawing the arm in with the hand.

Now I'm sure I don't have to explain the reasons why such a technique is implausible to the point of impossible in the hectic battleground of the street/pub/club.

So I'm at a loss to explain why a master of Funakoshi's knowledge would publish such methods, was he hiding the true intentions of karate so that no one could learn such dangerous skills from a book, or is it true what I heard about Nakayama, Egami and other shotokan seniors modifying and changing Funakoshi's text?

Anyone have any opinion, comments, rebuttals, answers?

[Jussi Häkkinen]

It's also possible - even probable - that Funakoshi, being a teacher and pursuing "civilized" lifestyle, did not know a thing about fighting.

Wouldn't surprise me at all, especially since a fellow karateka - Choki Motobu - from those ages described Funakoshi's karate to be like a shamisen - beautiful to watch but empty from inside. Motobu, while being educated (nobles were) still had a healthy attitude towards fighting. He had a no-nonsense approach.

[Saotome]

Bunkai suru is so open to interpretation, no matter what.

F'r example, Wado Ryu's Pinan Yondan doesn't have a knifehand strike - front kick combo. Ours has a couple of side hammerfist - front kick combos. There are all sorts of things you can do with those, but I can't think of any reason why you'd be using the *kick* to break the arm when the kick could go so many other useful places.

(This is a side hammer / kick, then elbow, which is then repeated on the opposite side...)

[cathal]

The Shuto / front snap combination is slightly different. The shtuo combination is first, and blocks a kick, then a punch to the head, using the left arm. The right arm comes around and strikes shuto to the elbow, thus breaking the arm. The front snap is meant to finish off the opponent.

In this technique you do not have to grab the arm, but merely react very fast to do the block/strike simultaneously. You can of course grab the clothing or arm if you can, I'm sure it would only strengthen your position, however it isn't necessary.

[Beer-monster]

The interpretation I usually go with is that covering a haymaker from the inside with the left hand you use the shuto against the carotid sinus or weak pint of the jaw.

Since this take some accuracy and make not knock the guy out you snap kick them in the groin, which instinctively forces them to bend. Guiding their head down with the circling motion of the left arm you sslip in close with the back leg (thus in cross stance) and slam you elbow into the back of their neck/base of spine ('backfist attack')

[aefibird]

F'r example, Wado Ryu's Pinan Yondan doesn't have a knifehand strike - front kick combo. Ours has a couple of side hammerfist - front kick combos.

Hw many people/styles use hammerfist and how many use shuto?

In my class we use the hammerfist techniques for Heian Yondan (as described above). However, the kick would be better used if it was aimed elsewhere,or even omitted altogether, rather than used as an arm break technique - something that seems a little impractical to me.

[Beer-monster]

I think we're taking about different parts of the kata, having also studied the pinans and well as the heian versions.

The conbination I refer to is not repeated on both sides.

The one that is repeated is after the morote uke, bring both hands to the side, kick (either mae geri or yoko geri keage depending on style) whilst doing an outward fist attack (either hammer fist, gedan barai, uchi uke, uraken) before doing an elbow smash. This is then repeated on the other side

The next sequence appear the same in most styles I've seen when you face north, perform a right knifehand strike whilst covering with the left hand before the forehead and right mae geri before moving into an uraken in kosa dachi. That the part I was refering to in my original post

[aefibird]

OK. Gotcha now.

[Saotome]

The next sequence appear the same in most styles I've seen when you face north, perform a right knifehand strike whilst covering with the left hand before the forehead and right mae geri before moving into an uraken in kosa dachi. That the part I was refering to in my original post

Okay, ours isn't a knifehand at that point. Ours is a te-barai, a flat-handed sweep (palm vertical) with the right hand chudan, with the left hand moving up vertically palm-out, protecting the side of the head/temple. Right maegeri, left hand comes down in a downward push/grab, right had goes out in an inverted backfist, stance is gyaku nekoashi dachi.

Sweep a kick, slap down and control the following punch, kick them in the guts, and backfist the bridge of their nose.

Crud, it's hard to explain kata in a post.

[AnonymousOne]

I have always considered bunkai as "possible ideas and possible applications from past masters, based on "their" interpretations"

Bunkai is open to interpretation in my view. If you can find better and more applicable applications for "you personally" that work, then go for it.

Every human body is different.

What I might be able to perform, you cannot and visa versa. So get that interpreting frame work going in your mind, study, create and explore.