TKD Round Kicks

[Superfoot]

Have any of you Tae Kwon Do practioners (doesn't matter if you're ITF, WTF or AIMAA) been instructed in the Military-style Round Kick that was employed in TKD? I'm currently studying WTF Tae Kwon Do and our instructor teaches us a "Tolyeo Chagi" where a 180 degree pivot is employed, and a knee-whipping motion is utilised to deliver the kick.

However, I recently watched a video starring Hwang Jang Lee called "The Art of High Impact Kicking", and the round kick he demonstrates is similar to a Muay Thai roundhouse, but the striking are is the ball of the foot/instep, and is aimed to hit an inch past the surface. He is credited as a Seventh-Degree WTF black belt, so I was wondering about the lineage of the TKD round kick. At what point in time was this round kick changed in favour of the new knee-whipping kick, and who was/were responsible for it? Or was the change in technique self-evolved. The link below details the differences between the two kicks, just for clarity.

http://tkdtutor.com/09Techniques/Kicks/RoundKicks.htm

I also have the Art of High Impact Kicking video on AVI file format. It is 1hr 12 mins in duration. If it does not go against the rules of this forum, and if you lot want to see it for yourself, I'd be happy to post it here for you to download. Bear in mind that the file size is 698mb, but well worth the watch.

Thanx in advance for any kind responses.

[TSDforChrist]

well, from the link you posted:

"After rise of the Olympic sport style of Taekwondo, there were a lot of complaints about the "slow speed" of the round kick and toe injuries from kicking training bags with the ball of the foot, so a different type of round kick was developed. A knee whip motion with an impact that pushes beyond the targett was developed, This was further aided by the in-stepping and kicking at 45 degree angle. This 45 degree round kick was used in the traditional Taekwondo, as in the Choong Moo pattern, but was not used much in sparring. "

I would guess the originator of the Choong Moo pattern may have had something to do with it - as the kick was developed, but also included in the pattern. Chances are, that is who is responsible for much of its incorporation. Just a guess, though.

None of the three kicks described in that link sounds like what I do either - so I guess there are more ways to throw it than I thought!

[neclos]

I started with WTF TKD which uses the new style. In the past two years I study traditional TKD which uses the old style. So now I use both depending on the situation.

I use old style round kicks (the more powerful one) for breaking and new style (faster) for sparring. I want to score, not kill, in sparring. Other students are so used to the old style, they hit me with that (it hurts!).

[Superfoot]

Thank you both for your replies.

Neclos, what is the Korean name for this "traditional" Tae Kwon Do you currently study, is it one originating from the orignal 7 Kwans prior to 1965?

Also, would you guys like to view "The Art of High Impact Kicking"? It's a great instructional thats hard to get hold of. You can see how Hwang Jang Lee executes the traditional roundhouse, plus many more "different" techniques.

[JaseP]

Tang Soo Do practitioners generally use a round kick with the ball of the foot. The power is generated by hip rotation.

The tops of the meta tarsals aren't designed to be a striking edge. Top of the foot round kicks were designed for tournaments, as were bottom of the foot hook kicks (as opposed to back of the heel). Blade of the foot side kicks are the same way.

[karatekid1975]

Tang Soo Do practitioners generally use a round kick with the ball of the foot. The power is generated by hip rotation.

I learned this style of round kick in Tang Soo Do. But I also learned the 45 degree angle kick (with the instep) in TKD. I use the ball of my foot for breaking, ect. I use the 45 degree kick for sparring since it is quicker (less powerful though ... in my opinion anyways).

[tufrthanu]

I always use the instep due to the fact that I have diabetic neuropathy and my toes are not very flexible. I have had very good luck with it and can hit very hard. While I agree that using the ball of the foot is more like getting punched than slapped I havent really any reason not to use the instep. They use it all the time in K-1 tourneys and while some people do break their foot...which is not the common case...I suppose you could also claim that using the ball of your foot you could accidently break your toes. My current school teaches the ball of the foot round kick and some of the students even at higher levels seem to be reticent to throw it full force. As to the executions of the kicks I've heard there are lots of ways to do it...I never even thought about how I did it I just threw it. Still not sure from those descriptions which way I do it.

[Superfoot]

Thanx for your replies everyone.

http://www.allmartialarts.com/KIXCO/History/history/map.htm

According to this link, Tang Soo Do has its origins before General Choi's TKD. Does this mean that this "Military Style Round Kick" has its lineage from Tang Soo Do? I've read on other forums that Tang Soo Do has been referred to as the grandfather of TKD, but I can't find much info detailing the interaction between the two arts.

http://tkdtutor.com/09Techniques/Kicks/RoundKicks.htm

However this link states that the original TKD round kick was developed in response to ridding itself of Shotokan influences. Is it possible that General Choi drew new influences from Tang Soo Do, or was this new kick just a Shotokan roundhouse kick that General Choi modified to use a greater pivot and a pivot coupled with a swinging motion.

I tend to use the lead turning kick in sparring to aim for the hogu, for me using the back leg for a turning kick is slower and feels unnatural, given that the hogu inhibits much of my hip movement. I haven't had the oppurtunity to break yet, but judging by most of the responses, the Round Kick that employs the ball of the foot might be the best idea. I've seen members of the TAGB use this circular round kick, but they are black belts, so I'm guessing that they have studied the Choong Moo pattern, and there instructors have taught them how to incorporate this movement into their arsenal.

[ninjanurse]

This kick is not unique to TKD as most japanese systems teach the "ball of the foot" kick as you so describe. Kicks using the top of the foot require a different balance of power but can become quite effective if practiced enough. It is important to remember that no one kick (or technique) is better than the other as use of a technique depends on the situation at hand and the moment in time. It is for you to decide.

[Superfoot]

Thanx for your response Ninjanurse. When you said most Japanese systems use this "ball of the foot" method, does that include the swinging motion as well? If so, could you tell me which ones? I can only think of World Oyama Karate students who may use this method, Sensei Marco Lala in particular. He details that conditioning the ball of the foot is vital for both round kicks and front kick in his instructionals. He uses cinder blocks.