No respect for age!

[carl]

I (we) don't compete in tournaments. We sometimes spar in class. I have never had a younger (cocky) student ask me to spar. If this were to happen, I would simply say to him or her, "No thank you , I don't want to get hurt." I don't need to prove anything to anybody. I know my limitations and would rather not get hurt trying to be "Mr. Macho".

Just my .02

Carl

[Shorin Ryuu]

Just a quick story relating to the topic:

Kenyu Chinen, who is now teaching in Paris, remembered seeing Chosin Chibana presiding over a grading examination in the early 1960's. The old master got up to demonstrate blocking technique, picking up a candidate at random and telling him to attack with mae geri (front kick). The candidate attacked and Chibana said "Not strong enough. It isn't necessary to block such an attack." He called for another attacker, with the same result. This happened several times until a muscular, (and nervous), karateka delivered a kick which, according to Chinen "would have knocked down a bull," Chibana blocked, watched the attacker fall back from the force of the block, and then returned to the examiners' table. He explained to all the candidates that they must always strike strongly - especially against the old experts "This old master's spirit was really very strong!" Chinen recalled.

-originally appeared in Fighting Arts International, Issue No. 51, Volume 9, No. 3, 1988 in an article written by Graham Noble

P.S. Chibana was the man.

[Patrick]

... I think there are always those kinds of people, regardless of age or even time period...

Exactly. (And not just the martial arts, of course, everything). There are disrespectful adults, disrespectful younger people, whatever.

[greenbelt_girl15]

I'm 15 and I do spar with my sempai now and then (he's about 50)But I don't do it to prove myself or beat up on him .Most of the time he is telling me to go ahead and hit harder.I realy enjoy sparring with someone who's my senior because it's a great learning experience.

My advice is, if these guys are continualy hitting/kicking harder than they are told; Make them do push-ups!Okay so mabe that won't work every time, but some of the people posting have great advice.

[Cmon]

Just from reading the initial post, i would deffinately never want to spar an elder just to prove myself. I would want to spar with them to learn and just to say "Ive spared with such and such a body". Plus it is all about learning at the end of the day. I would be a little deflated if i beat an elder in a spar because i would want to be shown my weak points and so on.

[Kicks]

I had to deal with this situation last night. I'm not quite as old as some of the fossils here, but I have a similiar story.

I was a guest instructor at a friend's TKD school. We are all preparing for our AAU Regionals. Since its only a week away I gave a little talk just before sparring that we all need to be careful not to get hurt or hurt anyone. We should do our drills but with light contact and control. I spoke for about 2 minutes and asked if everyone understood. They all said yes.

When I paired up with this 14-year-old black belt his very first move was a 360 flying roundhouse to my face at full force. Where was he when I gave my "be careful" speech? I know I said it in English. What possibly could he have not understood?

BTW.. I blocked it.

He continued sparring at full force and I just studied his technique. After the 1 minute round I gave him a few pointers and reminder him that when he sparred the next guy to tone it down and work on the tips I gave him.

The next guy he fought was my 16 year old son. The kid again went full out. Now my son is a higher rank and knows to fight lower ranks at just one notch above their level, Just enough to let them think that they could beat him, all they have to do is train a little harder and they'll get him next time. (I know, I'm letting out a black belt's secret, sorry).

After they finished I told this kid again that he was doing too many flying techniques and jumping up too much. I explained how dangerous that could be in a tournament against a better fighter. He looked at me like I was from Mars.

His next fight was once again against me; and guess what...full force jumping and flying again. Well this time he spent more time on the mat than in the air. Every move he made in my direction I put him on the ground. He made be quicker than me, but my timing is better than his, so it gives me the appearance of being faster. Twice he jumped up while I was doing a back kick. That meant he got hit below the belt. Yes, it hurt. Yes, too bad.

I did, again, review his sparring style and choice of techniques after we finished, but this time to a frighten face. He didn't stick around after class. I hope he becomes a better fighter, a better sportsman, a better person.

Edited April 3, 2005 by Kicks

[fatehollow.ataraxia]

That made me laugh... and cry. Those must've been short matches; jumping techniques take way too much energy to perform, especially in succession.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

I had to deal with this situation last night. I'm not quite as old as some of the fossils here, but I have a similiar story.

Hey now..I resemble that remark!

Uhhh...I mean... resent that remark!!!

I was a guest instructor at a friend's TKD school. We are all preparing for our AAU Regionals. Since its only a week away I gave a little talk just before sparring that we all need to be careful not to get hurt or hurt anyone. We should do our drills but with light contact and control. I spoke for about 2 minutes and asked if everyone understood. They all said yes.

When I paired up with this 14-year-old black belt his very first move was a 360flying roundhouse to my face at full force. Where was he when I gave my "be careful" speech? I know I said it in English. What possibly could he have not understood?

BTW.. I blocked it.

He continued sparring at full force and I just studied his technique. After the round I gave him a few pointers and reminder him that when he sparred the next guy to tone it down and work on the tips I gave him.

The next guy he fought was my 16 year old son. The kid again went full out. Now my son is a high rank and knows to fight lower ranks at just one notch above their level, Just enough to let them think that they could beat him, all they have to do is train a little harder and they'll get him next time. (I know, I'm letting out a black belt's secret, sorry).

After they finished I told this kid again that he doing too many flying techniques and jumping up too much. I explained how dangerous that could be in tournament against a better fighter. He looked at me like I was from Mars.

His next fight was once again against me; and guess what...full force jumping and flying again. Well this time he spent more time on the mat than in the air. Every move him made in my direction but him on the ground. He made be quicker than me, but my timing is better than his, so it gives me the appearance of being faster. Twice he jumped up while I was doing a back kick. That meant he got hit below the belt. Yes, it hurt. Yes, too bad.

I did, again, review his sparring style and choice of techniques after we finished, but this time to a frighten face. He didn't stick around after class. I hope he becomes a better fighter, a better sportsman, a better person.

Good for you kicks! What we may lack in speed, we make up for in expertise. One of my favoite sayings is... "Age and deceit will always overcome youth and skill"...or something like that.

[Grenadier]

While I might not be old enough to be someone's grandfather, I can still share some experiences / suggestions.

Any dojo, no matter how good the instructor is, or how reputable the school is, can run into this problem. Sometimes, a younger individual might develop an attitude out of nowhere. Maybe something in his life is bringing excess stress, or maybe he has a chemical imbalance, or some other reason.

I've dealt with such situations, where the youngster wants to prove that he's higher up the proverbial totem pole, and might try to go all-out during a sparring session. In such cases, I'll start by reminding him, that this sparring session is not an all-out deathmatch, and that we're sparring at a moderate pace to improve techniques. Most of the time, such gentle warnings are enough to make him realize, that he's going at an inappropriate speed.

If he continues to go all-out, then that's where I'll stop the sparring session, and give a sterner lecture, that we're not here to bash each other into a bloody pulp, and that the martial arts is about control. Usually, I'll remind him that if he's capable of pulling a punch, making light contact, then it's the same technique, with the same amount of force, except penetrating deeper, that gives a strong shot. In most cases (that remain), this tends to turn on a few missing light bulbs in the youth.

If the youth continues to engage in an all-out fashion, then I'll start increasing the force of my own techniques as needed. Not so much, as to match his at first, but rather, to provide yet another kind warning. Hopefully, this gets the message across, that what goes around, will come around. I'll never strike to break someone's bones in a dojo, but if someone doesn't get the message, I will deliver a good thump. At this point, if I've delivered a good shot, I'll remind the student to keep a cool head, and maintain control, in order to help prevent holes in the defense.

If it degenerates into a point where the youth starts attacking in a rage, that's when I'll end the session, back away, and let the chief instructor know. At this point in time, it's obvious that the student isn't going to listen to me, and that I'm wasting my time.

If the chief instructor has to get involved, and the student doesn't quit, it can end in three ways:

1) The student finally realizes that he's been going about things incorrectly, and gets it together.

or

2) The chief instructor simply tells the student to take a vacation from the dojo for a while, to cool off, and reflect on things. Maybe the student will come back, maybe he won't.

or

3) The chief instructor gives the go-ahead to tear up the student's contract. This is rarely, if ever, done, and only in cases where someone with a sustained bad attitude and hostile intentions, simply doesn't get "it." Something like this only happens once in a blue moon, since usually such kids with that bad of an attitude either don't register for lessons in the first place, or never stick around in the dojo afterwards.

[pineapple]

Am I a fossil?