Masters

[scottnshelly]

For those of you who are Masters, how did you know when you became a Master? Did someone tell you? Was it when you reached a certain rank? What has changed since becoming a Master? Any advice for upcoming Masters? How long did it take after you started Martial Arts or after you became a Black Belt?

For those of you who are not Masters, what makes a Master in your eyes? What are the qualities/characteristics of a Master? How long do you think you have until you become a Master?

The reason I ask, is this is my next goal in my Martial journey. I’m trying to figure out exactly what I need to be doing to prepare and all.

[karatekid1975]

I obviously didn't get that far. I'm just a 2nd gup/kyu. But in TKD a master rank is 5th dan, and in TSD a 4th dan.

But I believe a good instructor (not just a master) knows is students. He/she will push them to do well, but not to the point of "harrassing" them (sp?). Someone who's "standards" aren't low, but knows each student's limitations (previous injuries, ect). Someone who's not in it for the "business side" first. Someone who puts MA first, then his/her business (making a living is ok, but not to the point of charging too much). Obviously, they have to know what they are teaching, and their technique should be on the "awsome side" LOL. They should be modest, humble, and willing to pass this on to his/her students.

As far as me becoming a master .... I have years to go. I'll make first dan next spring (06), hopefully. 2 years from there, if the test goes well, I'll be a 2nd dan, ect.

[G95champ]

In most schools Master level is 5th Dan.

This is the case in our shotokan school as well.

I am not sure what other groups or styles do as far as limitations on this title because I see a lot of 20 and 30 something's claiming to be masters. 5th Dan in our club has age and testing requirments.

Basic Black Belt ID

1st - You know the basics

2nd - You can teach and test up to Black Belt

3rd - You can test black Belts and your can beat anyone up lol

4th - Age limit of 45 develope deep understaning for your art.

5th - I want to say an age limit of 52 and spiritual development of the style

Other dan ranks are just age and knowlege issues. In all reality the avg. person will get to 2nd, 3rd or 4th and not much more. Because IMO to be a Master is something special and its not a term to be thrown arround by anyone.

[scottnshelly]

So, so far i've gotten that a Master is just a rank? If you were to ask someone what a Black Belt was, i know you wouldn't get 'someone who's not an underbelt anymore'. There should be more to being a Master than just passing a test and fitting the time restrictions.

thanks for your input.

[senseipaul]

im 21 and i hold a 5th degree black belt in shaolin kempo. i do not believe that age is a factor, focus and training is. as far as "knowing" thats a little trickier. first, i feel that there is always more to learn so the term master is a little of an over statement. i do feel that the biggest part of it is settling into your technique. its like one day you stop practicing and stop teaching and just step outside of yourself and realize where you come and where you have to go. for what sence that makes.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

To me, a master is someone that truly has mastered the system/style that he practices. This takes years...and YEARS of intense practice and study of their art. Not just a mere 10-20 years.

Personally, I feel the term "master" is tossed out WAY to frequently in the martial arts.

I've seen quite a few people saying they were masters, or their students call (or are required to call) them master...and IMHO, they were about the skill level of some brown belts...maybe 1st Dans in most other systems. Granted (before you all jump all over me), requirements differ from system to system, but if you are a master of anything else in life, you have a lifetime of work and study into that area, and most "masters" of the martial arts I know, don't.

[Skeptic 2004]

I couldn't resist providing a little bit of input.

If you're calling yourself a master, you probably aren't. (And by "probably" I mean "definately")

People who are masters tend not to know they are. They're not under the illusion that they're bad (usually they tend to think they're "pretty good", some of the more egotistical on the spectrum "very good"), but their goal is perfection and they realize that they fall short of that.

I think the reason masters tend not to know that they are masters is because they cease to exist; all that matters is whatever it is that they're doing. I'm sure a concert pianist will tell you that they when they play, they cease to exist; the music lives. The best dancers I've ever seen speak of being possessed by the dance. Master artists and sculptors don't speak of forming images (insertion of self); instead they speak of images emerging (absence of self). Masters have an uncanny ability to make whatever it is they do alive. Picking on karate (since it's all I know), one of the finest karateka I've had the pleasure of meeting (Sensei Doug Perry), looks otherworldly when he performs a kata. The kata becomes alive, and he ceases to exist. I've seen other fine karateka whose kata looks good and sharp, but I can count on one hand how many others I've seen where their kata is alive.

In regards to martial arts, a high dan is not a sufficient condition for mastery. Your ability to make what you do come alive is.

[TangSooGuy]

In our organization, "Master" is atitle, and it is bestowed upon thos who have completed the rquirements for 4th Dan, and have at least 25 registered students of their own. A Master in our association is someone who has sacrificed their time to contribute to the well being of others, to the association, and to the art, and has taken it upon himself/herself to teach the art to another generation as well.

Teaching others at one's own studio location is a primary requirement for becoming a master. If you have not made a sacrifice to do so, you do not become a master.

You have to be at least 22 to reach 4th Dan as well, although I don't know anyone who has done so at that age. You are required to submit an application which basically asks to to list every contribution you have made since you began your training. It is a minimum of a three year testing process, and the tests happen at night, after several days of training. In addition, it is required that you submit a 20,000 word hesis hat you have researched on some aspect of the martial arts. I don't share this out od any need to boast, or say "look what I've done", just to illustrate that this is not something that is awarded just because you spent your time in rank.

5th Dan is a minimum of another 5 years off, but more realistically 7, 8, or 9 years. It also requires a minimum of two years of testing , and an additional thesis. Requirements for time and contribution increase from there

I'll be 31 in a few weeks, and am a 4th Dan "Master"...I'm certainly not going to ask that any of you adress me that way, and there are people that may scoff at the title, but being a master is more than just the title.

Becoming a black belt means you are truly ready to learn. To me, becoming a master means that you are ready to continue learning, but are now truly ready to teach as well.

I'll submit an article I wrote on this topic in the Articles forum...hopefully it will better explain what I mean. I'll link to it once it is up.

[ovine king]

.....which brings us nicely to the actual use of the term "master" in martial arts.

as far as i know, sensei, sifu and whatever other titles are used, DO NOT MEAN master;

they mean (something along the lines of) teacher.

[kotegashiNeo]

Ithe term I have heard thrown around in north america is shihan or worse yet soke. These terms mean master or creator now let me explain we I bare such ill will towards these titles. I have had the pleasure of trainning with several 7th 9th and one 10th dan okinawan practioners they are all had refer to them as sensei. One of these sensei come to mind his name is Taira sensei and he is easily the most skilled man I have ever seen a true master capable of skilled feats that have to be seen to be believed nothing cheesy like touch knockouts the real stuff and we called him sensei just sensi