Do you still remember and practice the early kata?

[cathal]

Memory fades, even muscle memory. You've got to keep practicing.

[baronbvp]

Korin, people may bite off more than they can chew, but it also depends on your philosphy. I have heard Bruce Lee hated kata. People like the Gracies of BJJ spend their time working on technique, repetition, and moves that are measurably effective. I realize BJJ doesn't have kata, but my point is that there are those out there who say time spent on kata is time you could be spending learning how better to fight.

A book you may have heard of, that I own and like, is "The Essence of Okinawan Karate-Do" by Shoshin Nagamine. It has good history of Shorin-Ryu/Shuri-te and Matsubayashi-Ryu.

Edited April 1, 2005 by baronbvp

[cathal]

I feel that kata is necessary to learning how to fight. It teaches adaptation, and to think on your feet.

[Zanejin]

I never stop practicing Kata and Kihon. Since they are the foundation of more complicated skills, it is vital to continue practicing them and thinking about how they work and why they work the way they do. Even the best in Martial Arts practice Kata and Kihon.

[jarrettmeyer]

... my point is that there are those out there who say time spent on kata is time you could be spending learning how better to fight.

I might agree with you depending on how you practice kata. If you've read Morgan's "Living the Martial Way" or read many of Shorin-Ryuu's posts or blog, you'll realize that there are multiple understandings of kata. I think if you're serious about kata, you'll really learn what it's all about.

I like to compare kata to an equestrian dressage test. Riders practice individual techniques for hours each week for years before they are good enough to perform a dressage test. You really have to be at a really high level just to keep impulsion in a training level test. It requires very high physical and mental symmetry.

I just don't think that kata are taught that way. They are repeated and repeated and repeated and ... you get the picture. But repetition without meaning is just muscle memory without application.

[baronbvp]

Not a bad analogy. I don't have enough karate experience to say. I do know that when I practice kata, I have to pay very close attention to the mechanics. I don't have enough practice yet to add the artistry that makes it flow smoothly and uniquely mine. What kata are teaching me now is a new way to move. Lke weight training, I am focusing on precise form first. Speed comes later.

As a kickboxer with a hodge-podge of other training, I normally move like a boxer but with more blocking than ducking, more like a martial artist that way. My footwork and style are linear and straight on, with very fast aggressive strikes and leading with my right or left. I also like to grapple if it gets to that point.

I have enjoyed the few kata I know so far for the rigid repetition and symmetry about my pivot axis. I have to think about "opening the gate" with my foot before I step forward, and swiveling my hips to punch strong as I step with the other foot. I have to think about which hand goes where when I change stances and block during the shift. Right now it is memorization of moves, but my senseis explain application and I can see the logic behind the designs of the kata.

Here is what I consider a good turning point for my thought process. This occurred a few weeks ago. My renshi is a 6th Dan in Shorin-Ryu, a 2nd Dan in White Crane, a former USMC officer and LAPD cop. We share a bond because we are both in our 40's and military and our kids go to school together. As a mentor, he gives me some special personal training outside group class.

Throughout my previous training, I have never been interested in earning belts but only in what works. As a carrier pilot, I cared more about quickly defeating an armed enemy between me and a rescue helo if I got shot down over Afghanistan or Iraq.

Over the course of a month or so, we exchanged some techniques and then he began showing me Splashing Hands and some more advanced karate. After a few lessons, I realized I didn't have the background in kata to remember or properly execute some of the moves he was showing me. So, I asked to focus on kata for awhile and progress through the belt system which we are doing now. Once I have that background, then we can freelance some more.

[steve57]

I regularly train the first katas, and have done so consistantly throughout my entire training.

A beginning kata may appear relatively simple when compared to a more advanced kata. However, this does not suggest that it is in any way inferior or less effective. Only this morning whilst practising the first goju gekasai kata I discovered a new application.

Consistanty training on ALL of your styles katas allows you to discover your art in its entirety.

[Kempohands]

I just don't think that kata are taught that way. They are repeated and repeated and repeated and ... you get the picture. But repetition without meaning is just muscle memory without application.

I agree with you on that. In order to benefit from kata training one needs to really examine and pick apart their form.

I personally practice and train my lower katas and forms to improve them of course, but also to teach myself more about my own art. There is so much to be learned from kata, no matter what rank you are you can teach yourself something new if you try hard enough.

[Bleeding Lion]

kata is very important as it structures the art. if you cant do a perfect kata, i doubt you can do perfect techniques in a fight. then again, if somebody argues we dont need perfect technique in a real fight, why then study the art?

for me kata is the undisputable base of technique application. for me it is what mathematics are to physics, chemistry, computer science, finance...

[cmantim]

In Isshinryu, the first kata you learn as a white belt is Seisan Kata (a bb kata in some other styles, and neither simple nor easy). I am constantly discovering new things when I practice this "beginner kata". My dojo is small, and we often have class with a good mix of skill levels. Since everyone knows Seisan kata, it is the one we practice most. I personally don't think a person can ever be "good enough" to not practice the basics.