Just how old is Tang Soo Do?

[tufrthanu]

Theres a very simple reason an onkiwan stylist would appear to be similar in kicking with a korean stylist at a tournament. Thats because its illegal to kick below the belt in competition. Unless you do a kyokushinkai tourny or something. So at a regular competition if you're a school that only kicks to the legs or low abdomen you have two choices. : 1. Kick above the belt for the competition or 2. Rely solely on hand strikes. No stretch of the imagination to see how a traditional okinawan stylist would end up with high kicks. I have a friend that does Okinawan Goju Ryu he learned either from Sonny Onoo or one of his students. And he spars exactly like I do.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

Theres a very simple reason an onkiwan stylist would appear to be similar in kicking with a korean stylist at a tournament. Thats because its illegal to kick below the belt in competition.

Just a FYI...the tournaments I've judged/ref'd at over the last 25 years...all open/any style tournaments, all allow light/medium contact to the groin, and the lower torso below the belt is a legitimate target. I agree with this and it's made a HUGE difference in seeing the head kickers raising there legs to high. Or rather...they still do...but just once.

[tufrthanu]

I don't know we were always told to keep our kicks above the belt. And everywhere I've ever sparred has been the same way.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

I don't know we were always told to keep our kicks above the belt. And everywhere I've ever sparred has been the same way.

Most likely that's because you do Korean systems which emphasise high kicks. They don't like to have the groin as a target because then you'd learn real fast why high kicks don't work, or aren't really a good idea anyway...and then where would you be?

Just a quick little story here. About 15 years ago or more, I was running a semi-commercial dojo in my small town. A guy about 25 years old came in one night and was pssing through on his way from New York to Seattle and saw my sign and stopped in to check it out. He was a 3rd Dan (he said anywy) in TKD and asked if I would spar him. To make a long story short, he immediately threw a head kick (he was pretty tall) at me, which I ducked and very lightly (he wasn't in a gi or wearing a cup) roundhouse kicked his groin.

Well, he didn't like that, said it was very rude (I hardly touched him and definitely didn't hurt him) and said that in his system (TKD) that groin kicks were considered dishonorable. He turned and walked out.

It's all I and my students could do to withhold out uproarious laughter until the door shut.

[Shorin Ryuu]

Geez. Haven't you ever heard of the Ancient Warrior's Code: Thou Shalt Not Strike the Jewels of Thy Opponent in Combat?

Most, most dishonorable.

[juan Kerr]

How long had Grandmaster Hwrang studied Taiji for when he created our style? I hear that it takes ten years to master which makes it sound very complicated.

Juan.

sorry, but can anyone answer me this?

[Shorin Ryuu]

How long had Grandmaster Hwrang studied Taiji for when he created our style? I hear that it takes ten years to master which makes it sound very complicated.

Juan.

sorry, but can anyone answer me this?

Anything that takes ten years to master isn't a complete style.

(Hint: You can't master Tai Chi in ten years)

[Akima]

Jase,

Sorry, but the style is only 60 years old.

I know you probably want to say it's thoughsands of years old but it is not. Yes there were korean martial arts, and yes GM Kee did incorporate techniques from the ancient text into modern soo bahk do, but this was all after he firmly established TSD as it is today. The techniques and form patterns are base on Shotokan, just like TKD.

You need to take Asian history with a grain of salt. In Korea they are still trying very hard to wipe the stain of the Japanese occupation away. They are very very sensitive to anything being labled Japanese or having Japanese orgins. It's all over Asia. There's is constant academic arguments over the nationality of aniquities and sites.

Yes, TKD and TSD do favor high kicking (TKD more so) This is mainly due to high kicks scoring more points in tournaments.

[JaseP]

Jase,

Sorry, but the style is only 60 years old.

I know you probably want to say it's thoughsands of years old but it is not. Yes there were korean martial arts, and yes GM Kee did incorporate techniques from the ancient text into modern soo bahk do, but this was all after he firmly established TSD as it is today. The techniques and form patterns are base on Shotokan, just like TKD.

Respectfully, No you're wrong.

Tang Soo Do is not "based on Shotokan" as Hwang Kee never studied Japanese styles... That stuff was added AFTER he opened the Moo Duk Kwan. The Moo Duk Kwan is 60 years old or so,... but not Tang Soo Do, based on Korean kwon bop,... Orignially, the Moo Duk Kwan was more like what you see in Hapkido, a lot of free fighting and application and little in the way of forms work. The Shotokan forms were added afterwards.

The movement in classical Shotokan and Tang Soo Do are totally different. The execution of techniques is different. I can, in fact, go technique by technique and point out the differences to someone who is not familiar with one or the other system (it's kind of difficult to do in print). GM Hwang (not Kee,... that is his "first" name), incorporated MORE of classical Korean martial arts into it,... and buit form sets to emphasize it. But what he learned originally was not Shotokan, and that is not what he passed on...

[juan Kerr]

jaseP,

You seem very knowledgable on the histoy. Had Grandmaster Hwrang studied Taiji and if he did, how long for?

It seems odd that he should have added the Shotokan moves if he had never trained in shotokan.