Shiko vs Kiba

[AnonymousOne]

In my school we use a very deep Kiba Dachi where that stance is required.

Gojuryu, and other schools use a very similar stance called Shiko Dachi.

In your opinion, which do you feel is the better stance? And if so why?

Which is the most stable?

What are the weaknesses and strengths of each stance?

Why would the ancient masters opted for one stance rather than the other?

For those that dont know that names of the stances:

Shiko Dachi

http://www.shotokankarate.dabsol.co.uk/shotokan/stances/shiko.htm

Kiba Dachi

http://www.shotokankarate.dabsol.co.uk/shotokan/stances/kiba.htm

(Note: The demonstrator would never get away with this in our school. Hehe. It says you must keep your feet paralell to each other, but hes not. But never the less, the example is there)

[Jussi Häkkinen]

They are two different stances for two different purposes. Learn to use both. Learn what are the differences when considering the anatomy side.

Also, make yourself familiar with the older versions of the stances - they're a bit narrower and more mobile.

[harleyt26]

In the Shito ryu system I studied we did kiba dachi also but we had a stance called fuda dachi that was much more similar to the shiko dachi used in the okinawan systems I study now. Tom

[Shorin Ryuu]

To back up Jussi Hakkinen, the traditional way of doing both stances is much higher. To be honest, I fail to see the utility in a very deep kiba dachi or a deep shiko dachi.

But to answer the question, one difference between having the feet parallel and the feet out at an angle is that the feet parallel is useful for "locking in place" during grappling, while the feet out at an angle allows for rising and falling movement during grappling (as well as easier transition in stance).

Using this reasoning, I feel that having a very deep kiba dachi (or shiko dachi, for that matter) is quite impractical, other than building muscle and endurance in training. In my opinion, the only real usefulness of having deep stances is for grappling purposes. Grappling in the manner of shiko dachi or kiba dachi as linked to above is too "double-weighted," not beneficial from a biomechanical perspective, and leaves you too vulnerable.

[cathal]

I prefer kiba because its easy to move into other stances, and you aren't too low.

[AnonymousOne]

Thamks guys. I was really looking for opinions rather than advice hehe

I have noticed in some Goju schools the Shiko dachi is practised as low as our Kiba dachi

With reference to mobility, the reason we train in low stances is to develop mobility rather than lose it. You see when you train constantly in a lower stance it simply means when you are sparring and naturally taking a higher stance, you are stronger and actually more mobile. Your body is used to operating at lower levels and when you come up its easier to move.

Mobility/agility is of course a critical factor for the MA. This is why its a good idea to do some cross training into the agility training exercises of other sports such as Ladder Agility exercises etc.

[cathal]

Not only that, but it does build up leg muscles.

[yamesu]

Kyokushin uses both Kiba and Shiko Dachi in kihon. (Feet must be parallel in Kiba.)

I like Kiba more as I think it looks better quite personally, (kata purposes,)

IMHO, Kiba is a very powerful stance, more stable than Shiko due to the foot positioning and the way weight is proportioned on each foot.

Moving in these stances usually occurs at the height of a normal ZenkutsuDachi, but we drop down lower at the climax of movement (ie, when hit is delivered - throw is executed,) to maximise efficiency of the hit, throw, etc....

Osu.

[cathal]

We're similar. We don't tend to do a low kiba.

[aefibird]

Moving in these stances usually occurs at the height of a normal ZenkutsuDachi, but we drop down lower at the climax of movement (ie, when hit is delivered - throw is executed,) to maximise efficiency of the hit, throw, etc....

We tend to do that too.

I prefer ShikoDatchi to KibaDatchi, but that's because, personally, I find it to be a stronger stance for me.