Do blocks really work?

[steve57]

How do you reach this assumption dingyuan?

[dingyuan]

How do you reach this assumption dingyuan?

 

Oh this is pretty much a Chinese things because in most Chinese martial arts there are more parries than blocks. To me block and attack are 2 actions while parry and attack can be one action and it saves a lot more time. Maybe you know a lot more blocks than I do and I do believe there are some very effective block but my blocking knowledge is very litmited. Baji Quan has little or no blocks, we tend to shoot into close range and finish the fight ASAP even if we have to take a few hit.

[ovine king]

So have we established then that a block and counter wouldn't work in most cases on the street?

 

not really.

 

i think we've established that looking at things in terms of block then strike is looking things wrongly.

[Master Jules]

The Goju Ryu blocking methods are designed to bring the opponent CLOSER to you, because Goju is really a grappling art. The Goju blocks are circular in nature, and facilitate the usage of the elements of Chin Na (seizing and grabbing), and chi sao (sticky hands) found in the system. Yes, Goju is certainly a "striking" art, but the blocks themselves are designed to not only deal with an incoming technique, but to put you in a more advantageous position to strike. There are also 3 "levels" of defense, so to speak. The first is the basic "block with one hand, then strike with the other".......The second is "block with one hand, then strike with the same hand", and the third is "block with one hand, and simultaneously strike with the other".....thats the "block-strike" part of the system. The grappling aspect comes from the usage of the "Ju" or "soft" part of the system. Being circular in nature, the idea behind the Goju block is to "meet" the incoming technique, "blend" with it (or "stick" to it), and then trap and control. The best example of this is the open handed middle block. Many of the Goju kata bunkai (applications) involve grappling, which leads to locks, breaks, and throws.

 

As far as the issue of forearms and conditioning.....Goju Ryu uses a training procedure known as Kotei Kitae, or forearm banging, which develops the bones of the forearms to such an extent, that a block really is a strike to the incoming limb (good example here is the opening movement of Sepai kata. As you step back with the left leg in shiko dachi (sumo stance), the right forearm sweeps down like the wing of the crane, etc......Yes, its a block, but with proper forearm conditioning, its a strike as well.

[markusan]

Aside from individual styles, do you think that the distinction between techniques is more important in the early days of your ma careere and become less so as you progress. I learnt very linear big blocks in TKD. But as I trained with Kyukushin, Shotokan and other karate styles then with Wing Chung I found those TKD blocks far too slow and rigid. The blocks became more like parries, the movements smaller and more efficient. While I trained in weapons, particularly with a bo, I found my blocking parrying motion becoming more circular and stickier(pardon the pun) Now I can't tell when a block becomes a strike, it just happens.

 

But that said, blocks are all important in any fight situation. Not so much traditional blocks like in kata but a defensive position with hands and arms covering vital organs, redirecting the attack. It might give you the seconds you need to prevail or escape.

 

As for bone conditioning. Does that prevent your arm from breaking or rather deaden the nerves so it doesn't hurt as much as it breaks. I would have thought it would be safer perhaps to build up some muscle around the bone and defend with that.

[PhnxShnx]

Conditioning builds up the bone, slowly adds layer upon layer of bone material. Probably kills nerves too, but I'm told that even after 20 years of conditioning, it still hurts..

[steve57]

That is a very interesting and consise response Master Jules, I can't really add to it.

 

Within the goju katas there are indeed many blocks that serve multiple functions, and the learning of these ultimately comes with experience.

 

Goju tends to take a slow track approach towards progression through the katas. In most cases this subsequently means that you take longer reaching the advance katas, thus possibly not learning multi-functional blocks until later in your career.

[cross]

There is a difference between the basic block which teaches you the full body mechanics of the technique, and the actually application of the technique in a blocking context(we all know that blocks are often locking techniques in application).

 

No, the block is its basic form probably wouldnt be effective on "the street", but its application should be. ( i say "should" because it depends on the individuals interpretation of the technique, which will vary with each person depending on what they see and feel in the technique.)

 

This is very important to remember, the basic of the block is so you can learn the full range of motion of the technique. When it comes to apply the technique in an actual situation you just use the "part" of that full motion you learned earlier.

 

So to answer your original question:

In reality how many times do you actually see anybody block at all?

 

Pretty much NEVER. But thats talking about seeing a person perform a block in its most basic form. If you look carefully at a skilled person they will be using small sections of the blocking techniques they learned to cover, deflect, parry etc.

A street fight is usually complete mayhem and doesn't even get close to resembling how we usually train in the controlled arena.

 

Correct, in application the blocks are not ment to look controlled and pretty. Everything flows together so its hard to see individual techniques, but covering, deflecting etc is all happening.

Therefore, my question is in reality are blocks effective?

 

YES, if you understand the difference between the basic technique and its application.

[cross]

Goju Ryu is inherently a Buddhist art.

 

I thought that Gogen Yamaguchi followed mainly the shinto "faith". I realise he was not the founder of goju but he certainly would have had alot of influence over its direction.

 

Where does the buddhist influence come from?

[jarrettmeyer]

Goju tends to take a slow track approach towards progression through the katas. In most cases this subsequently means that you take longer reaching the advance katas, thus possibly not learning multi-functional blocks until later in your career.

 

This is very true, but I'm going to make the assumption that this teaching style is not limited to Goju Ryu. When you start out, a low block is a low block. Later, it becomes more. You will learn that as you step into the low block, and follow up with a second technique. Parry, then counter as one motion. You will learn about nerve masses, located at the inside of the groin and just above an below the knee. The block becomes a strike within itself. You will learn about grappling techniques that begin with catching an opponent's leg. The block becomes a lock, and subsequently a throw.

 

This is done because you can't learn all of it at once. Your brain and body take time to analyze (break down) and synthesize (rebuild) the technique. And if you don't take time to learn it all slowly and correctly, you will end up a master of half-correct, zero-viability techniques.