Best tournament kata

[Aodhan]

I really want to go to a couple open events and compete using Jung Yul or Chung San (ATA 2nd and 3rd degree forms), just to see how they would stack up.

I'm not sure about how the judges would look at it though because of the length differences. Jung Yul is 82 moves, and takes about 2 minutes to finish. How does that compare to bassai dai, or some of the other styles' advanced kata?

Aodhan

[Whitefeather]

I do not know if anyone else has seen Choshin, but I have seen it done at a tournament (actually two) before and it looked absolutely awesome. I just learned it, and it is even more fun to do than it is to watch. Definately my favorite tournament kata.

[daizyblackbelt]

ah choshin such a great kata!

personally i prefere kakoshin...but that's because one of my good buddies does choshin and is unfortunately good at it.

not too many people are going to be familiar with them simply because they are so uniquely shudokan and aren't widely accepted as traditional kata.

[Whitefeather]

How long is Kakushin compared to Choshin? I know Sochin and Choshin, but, regretably, I do not yet know the middle kata in the series.

David

[daizyblackbelt]

Kaku/Kakoshin is of very similar length to choshin.

Choshin: about 70-80 moves

Kakoshin: about 70 moves

and it's got some fun stuff in it...:

a "backside" 270 jump from fudodachi to fudodachi

front kick, side kick combos

a 180 aerial jump (just like choshin)

...almost sounds like an XMA kata...but it's not

all in all, it's very enjoyable it used to be my tournament kata, and it's novelty and general bizarreness is a great suprise to many people who see it.

again, it does not do well at any tournament that is not mainly shudokan (like the tournaments in Yakima, WA; Walla Walla, WA; etc...) but that doesn't decrease its value or sheer coolness.

but it is the reason i switched to the Ryuei-ryu kata Heiku, and now Chatanyara Kusanku

is anyone here familar with the Ryuei-ryu style of karate?

katas:

Heiku

Pachu

Anan (everyone should know this one)

Paiku

cheers,

David

[Whitefeather]

Hmmm. I guess I will have to learn this Kaku(o)shin kata, it sounds quite wonderful (especially that 270). As for the "Ryuei-Ryu" katas, I have never the family name before, but I know (and thoroughly enjoy) Anan, and, although I do not know them, I have heard of Heiku, Pachu, and Paiku (I think) as being excellent tournament katas. About Choshin, I believe that one can actually use it with some success outside of Shudokan tournaments (granted, one must have it absolutely, 100%, diamondly perfect). Supposedly one of YSK blackbelts used Choshin at an international tournament in Las Vegas, and he placed somewhere in the top 10, I think eighth. But then again, he is freak-ishly good.

David

PS

It is a happy thing to see another Shudokan practitioner around.

[daizyblackbelt]

ah yes, i was in las vegas to see that, and he did fairly well.

you have to be freakishly good to do well with those kata there they just don't like them all that much, but he's got some techinal issues that no here in the NW ever calls him on.

and whitefeather:

in response to your private message, the answer is yes, but i can't respond in private because i don't have more than 25 posts yet... (send me another PM and let me know who I'M talking to eh?

[Aodhan]

Kaku/Kakoshin is of very similar length to choshin.

Choshin: about 70-80 moves

Kakoshin: about 70 moves

and it's got some fun stuff in it...:

a "backside" 270 jump from fudodachi to fudodachi

front kick, side kick combos

a 180 aerial jump (just like choshin)

Really. Ok, maybe I can compete with the ATA jung yul form then. It's 82 moves.

I'm surprised that you introduce combos like the front kick/side kick that late. We have that at purple belt (4th gup), and we introduce the 180 degree aerial jump at red belt (1st gup).

Aodhan

[daizyblackbelt]

the combos are not introduced then, that is simply one of the few katas (if not the only) that employs them in our style.

there is a decided lack of multiple kick sections in any of our kata and kumite, and it could be said to be a unfortunate lack. however, we are primarily concerned with our hands in shudokan, and intersperse them with kicks (lets say 4 to 1 ratio at best)

this keeps it "simple" (deceptively so) and we have found this to be very effective in fighting a variety of styles.

personally i love double kick combos, and am working on improving them, both with one leg and alternating, but never forgetting that punches and other arm strikes are the core of what we do.

but we're talking about kata here.

you'll find also that we introduce the aerial jump earlier than this, (partially at 1st kyu, and fully and 1st dan) but there's nothing that says it isn't still fun to do and impressive to watch when done well, or that it doesn't have varying degrees of difficulty and application that aren't fully appreciated or too dangerous to perform at a lower level.

and sometimes you'll find that length can be a benefit in tournament katas. if you perform a dificult, long kata well then you're more likely to receive a better score. that being said, don't do something that's TOO long. i know someone who performed the kata "shin" (at least 100-200 moves and takes about 5 min to perform...) and received scores that weren't equivalent to the job he did performing it.

moral of the story, "shin" does not belong on the list of best tournament katas.

cheers,

David

[Whitefeather]

you'll find also that we introduce the aerial jump earlier than this, (partially at 1st kyu, and fully and 1st dan) but there's nothing that says it isn't still fun to do and impressive to watch when done well, or that it doesn't have varying degrees of difficulty and application that aren't fully appreciated or too dangerous to perform at a lower level.

Definately. If I am not mistaken, there is actually a kata taught at the greenbelt level (fourth kyu, I think) which has a very simple jump that is practically impossible to not do properly. From there forwards, there are many katas which use jumps of varying, and sometimes extreme difficulty, such as the oh-so-beloved Unsu with its 360, which is reserved for shodans only.

David