Testing, a good thing or a bad thing?

[Shorinryu Sensei]

Ah, ok.

 

Our testing process is similar, but a master is necessary to fill out the certificate to make it all official. Our tests are very straightforward and quick. We will do some kihon, a kata, and then kumite. I haven't seen one go over 20 minutes.

 

On our certificates, the student hs the option of joining our small association for $25/year and getting a very nice certificate half in kanji, the other half in English...or I can give them a much cheesier certificate myself. So far, except for my senior student, the other students have opted for my certificates.

[cathal]

Ah, cheese is popular. I like cheese.

 

Our certificates have the shotokan logo on top, flanked by dragons, and a nice border. English on the top, and beautifully written kanji on the bottom. As I recall, its mandatory to pay an annual $30 fee for ISKF membership so you can grade and participate in training and goodwill tournaments.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

Ah, cheese is popular. I like cheese.

 

Our certificates have the shotokan logo on top, flanked by dragons, and a nice border. English on the top, and beautifully written kanji on the bottom. As I recall, its mandatory to pay an annual $30 fee for ISKF membership so you can grade and participate in training and goodwill tournaments.

 

Sounds a lot like our association certificates, but the kanji is on the right side of the certificate, English on the left. Association membership for sutdents is optional, but required of the instructors. All of my certificates are 1/2 and 1/2.

[taiji fajin]

So far (correct me if I'm wrong), it seems like most people believe in testing, but some make it far more informal (very short, or even just a quick look over / giving advice on something they need help with).

 

I like that aikido article as well, it brought up some good points:

 

a) evaluation under stress

 

b) testing should reflect a student's regular practice

 

c) more how a student handles himself in an unexpected moment than in technical knowledge

 

d) following time period given used for corrections and help

 

e) people who left practice for too long should not be able to enter where they left off

 

f) do not promote out of fear they will leave

 

g) rank should reflect level

 

So now for some questions / comments about those point:

 

a) How much stress should they be under? Should this be mental stress of knowing you are being evaluated, of physical stress, seeing how well they do while physically tired. If the later, how tired? How do you protect against injury when a student is very tired? At some point of fatigue, everyone loses some cognitive ability and will make mistakes about which number is which.

 

b) is he referring here to making the testing day like a practice day, or making the material (proportionately) equal to what they do in regular class?

 

c) I agree with this one. I've never been a fan of, how well can you cram in a month or two? Moreso I want to see their overall skill, and their character.

 

d) I really like this. Unfortunately, teaching at a university under semester timelines makes this difficult for my club. While I tell them to practice over break (and they do), I still do not get to see them for 1 to 3 months, depending on what semester it is. Each belt level takes too long to teach, make sure they have it as well as they need before the belt test, and test, to get it done before the semester is over. As I've talked about in other threads, the only reason I even do it in as short amount of a time as that is my old instructor has just recently left, and that is how everyone is use to it. I am considering changing it.

 

e) agreed. However, they do have more skill / knowledge than a white belt. How to solve this? Have them put on a white belt, but let them advance more quickly until they reach their old belt level (still needing the same skill level to move on, I am just assuming they will reach that skill level quicker, as they were already there once)? Letting them keep their old color, but pushing a review on them until they are caught up to where they were, and only then letting them continue where they left off? Ideas would be more than welcome.

 

f) again, I agree with this. Unfortunately, I've actually had to fail people who then quit, even though I did it as nicely as possible, with encouragement for them to stay.

 

g) I certainly hope so! I think the worst feeling I could have was knowing that I've produced paper tigers. After the midterm, I gave a talk about the importance of foundation over window dressing (used an analogy I love, though its not mine. I'll post it later if people want, this post is already really long).

 

 

 

Anyway, thank you to everyone for the input so far, and keep it coming! I am very interested in Shorinryu Sensei's style, and believe when I move away and start up my own school from scratch, I will probably do some combination of his and a full out test (though this thread may change my mind to one way or the other!) Again, thank you to everyone who has posted so far.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

OK...I'll address these also if I may.

 

a) evaluation under stress Why? I see my students at every class. I knowbetter than they do what they can, and can't do. I see no advantage or purpose for putting them through the stress of a long, extended testing process.

 

b) testing should reflect a student's regular practice Yes, that's why I say I test my students...through my observation of them...at every class. Every regular class is a test of their efforts to learn and improve themselves. In a situation where I used assistant instructors and where I didn't attend classes myself on a regular basis...yes, I think a more formal testing by me would be appropriate...but that's not the case in my dojo. I'm there for every class normally.

 

c) more how a student handles himself in an unexpected moment than in technical knowledge Believe me, the students never know what I'm going to throw at them at any given time in class. I don't evaluate them on history or "text book" knowledge, but on their karate training.

 

d) following time period given used for corrections and help I believe they either know it...or they don't. I make corrections as I see them in class. If they know it, they are promoted..if not, they aren't...simple.

 

e) people who left practice for too long should not be able to enter where they left off I don't agree with this one bit. If a person earns a promotion and belt, as far as I'm concerned...practice or long term away from training...they still earned that belt and have that rank. However, if they return to class after a long term absense, it will take longer than usual to advance to their next rank as they have to get back to the level they were at first before advancing further.

 

f) do not promote out of fear they will leave That's not going to happen. If a student isn't working out and threatening to leave, or I think they are going to...then leave. I may personally like the peson, but if they aren't performing and working as they should be, then I don't want them in my class anyway.

 

g) rank should reflect level Exactly! And of course, this level will vary from dojo to dojo. What I expect at a certain belt may not be what anybody else expects at that same belt.

I am very interested in Shorinryu Sensei's style, and believe when I move away and start up my own school from scratch, I will probably do some combination of his and a full out test (though this thread may change my mind to one way or the other!)

 

Thanks. My methods aren't for everybody of course and there's people that love the more formal testinjg process. I like how I test and feel that for my style of teaching, it's effective. As I've said, my students know they are being watched and evaluated everytime they are in class. They also hear it from me often enough that they know that if they screw around or don't give me their best effort, they failed in my mind for that day.[/b]

[taiji fajin]

Not a problem, I really do like your style. I feel like I'm more and more leaning to it. It is also what my instructor in my other martial art does, except he doesn't use belts, just teaches you more as you are ready for it, and keeps refining what you are working on if you need refinement. I'm just so ingrained with the idea of a formal test at the end of each semester that it feels odd / is hard for me to get away from. That, and I know if my students go to another school for my style, or wven if they stay, when they reach black belt and are tested with the grandmaster there, they will have to take a long, physically demanding test to earn their belt. Can I prepare them for this in other ways than having them do a test like this? Yes. But old habits die hard. Anyways, arguments from or against this style from anyone? I would love to hear from korean martial arts practitioners more, as they often seem more prone to testing (at least in the few that I know, including mine).

[Shorinryu Sensei]

Teaching in a situation like you describe where you have semesters and are expecteed to "grade" your students like they do in regular academic classes is a different situation than in a regular dojo. I can see where each student needs to take more of a formal test in that situation.

 

I taught a class at the college years ago also, but it wasn't for credits..it was more of a club, so we didn't have the pressure of testing at the end of a semester. Classes were held twice/week in the evenings and other than being in a "club" status rather than as a "college class", we pretty much did what we wanted in there.

[smr]

Hey Shorinryu Sensei -- If I ever move to the Montana area I'll be looking you up. You seem to share my idea of what a good school should be.

 

At my school, I think they take testing FAR too seriously. I'm new to the school, thus I haven't been tested there. However, a guy who moved to this school along with me took his green belt (5th kyu) test last weekend. It was THREE AND ONE HALF HOURS LONG! I guess it started with 30 minutes of calisthenics, followed by being drilled on basics then finally kata. He didn't mention kumite, but I'm sure there was some. This to me is excessive beyond all logic. They said if you pass out you automatically get your belt, except at your shodan exam in which case they wake you up and continue. I hope they were kidding.

 

This situation is dissapointing because everything else about the school I am very happy with.

[Ben Martin]

personaly i dont like being tested but its more of a mental thing for me. always had stage fright since i was little, so the though of doing the techniques and then being in the ring while everyone stands around judging me and looking for my faults scares me. the only reason why i do grade is becuase i would love to teach. the biggest test for me is the stamina factor im a temp green so i have to work from the two sylabous' green and blue and i have about 8 rounds to do after ive shown my techniques then some exercises after and that is hard.

[cathal]

A lot of great discussion here; I can honestly say this is a great topic.

 

Me, I'm for testing casually. My sensei grades us all the time as well, and I'm happy for the gradings too because it can help provide me not with incentive per se but to help plot out my goals in my training.