Naihanchin/Tekki Sandan...

[P.A.L]

here is a picture of Nanami Zenkutsu dachi, at the opening of Naihanchi Sandan

 

http://www.toyei.com/BookDescription.html

[Shorin Ryuu]

Ah yes. I believe this work was part of the manuscript that Richard Kim blatantly plagiarized for his Weaponless Warriors.

[ONE TROOF]

here is a picture of Nanami Zenkutsu dachi, at the opening of Naihanchi Sandan

 

http://www.toyei.com/BookDescription.html

 

My Kobayashi sensei called that a "hard bow" stance.

 

The Matsumura Seito version of Naihanchi Sandan begins with stepping (the right foot) into a pigeon-toed or naihanchi dachi. Next is a thumb breaking strike (where the right wrist bone strikes to the left wrist). I guess Soken eliminated that modified forward stance and made the entire kata in naihanchi dachi, like shodan and nidan.

 

I don't know if the Shorinji Ryu, Seibukan, Shobayashi (Sukunaihayashi) types do the naihanchi kata in a pigeon-toed stance. I know that Matsubayashi doesn't and Shorinkan and Seito definitely do, but what are the benefits of training Naihanchi without naihanchi stance? This is Shuri's answer to sanchin, but how is that if you do a style that doesn't do a stance similar to sanchin (hourglass)?

 

BTW this is technically my first post. Patrick keeps hating and kicking me out of his "kingdom" for telling the truth. I bet he's fat and angry. (j/k)

 

Good thread.

[Shorin Ryuu]

Much of the changes from Naihanchi stance to a kiba dachi were when Funakoshi taught karate in Japan. He started teaching it (for whatever reason) in a kiba dachi (even did kiba dachi in various photos and whatnot). I like the Nanami Zenkutsu for its various uses, and I think its inclusion is useful.

 

As far as Naihanchi vs. other stances in the rest of the kata, I agree completely. Not doing Naihanchi in a Naihanchi stance makes it, well, not Naihanchi (just as well the changed the name for it in the Japanese version).

 

I think in Shorinkan, there is less emphasis on extreme pigeon-toedness (if there is such a word). The outer side of the feet are parallel while the inner can be curved in.

[ONE TROOF]

Much of the changes from Naihanchi stance to a kiba dachi were when Funakoshi taught karate in Japan. He started teaching it (for whatever reason) in a kiba dachi (even did kiba dachi in various photos and whatnot). I like the Nanami Zenkutsu for its various uses, and I think its inclusion is useful.

 

As far as Naihanchi vs. other stances in the rest of the kata, I agree completely. Not doing Naihanchi in a Naihanchi stance makes it, well, not Naihanchi (just as well the changed the name for it in the Japanese version).

 

I think in Shorinkan, there is less emphasis on extreme pigeon-toedness (if there is such a word). The outer side of the feet are parallel while the inner can be curved in.

 

Yes I agree. The stance should "feel" as though you are pigeon-toed, with pressure exerted on the outer foot and leg which lends to rising/springing power, a valuable lesson free throw shooters in the NBA have learned. There is no need for extreme pigeon-toedeness. There is a need for a strong and flexible root/base and supple upper body.

 

If you do this kata in any kind of horse stance (kiba dachi) or a square stance then I don't know if you're getting the lessons and qigong that are inherent in Naihanchi. The horse stance, which the Matsumura guys call PaiSai Dachi, is better suited for Passai Sho/Dai and other kata which teach more falling power or maximizing gravitational force.

 

Where do you study in Cali?

[Shorin Ryuu]

I live in Monterey, but I actually train in San Francisco (2 hours north) under Sam Ahtye (Shorin Ryu Shorinkan). I moved out here last August and leave next September.

 

How about you? (Or are you being mysterious?)

[cathal]

One of our applications for this kata is a knee-throw. The press block and the knee are joined in throwing the opponent in the first move.

[Shorin Ryuu]

Yeah, the Naihanchi kata are amongst my favorites because of all the lovely moves and principles it contains.

[P.A.L]

Matsubayashi opens the sandan directly into Naihanchi dachi(wider than us)by moveing the left leg. the picture i posted shows Seibukan founder.

 

i recently changed my steping in Nihanchi, let's say i wanna step to the right from Naihanchi to Naihanchi,I turn to a short Nanami zenkutsu dachi just by turning my right foot outward(on the heal while i am shifting my weight to the right leg and my left foot just started it's move) then i step , i saw sensei thampson does this ,when i do this i feel my steping is smoother and faster. i used to keep my right foot in nauhanchi or straight while steping to right. try it and tell me what you think.

[AnonymousOne]

In our school when we perform Kiba Dachi in the Tekki Kata's (Naihanchi) we take a very low stance, wider, lower and deeper even than the normal Shotokan Kiba Dachi. Its a killer on the legs, but it sure develops stability and leg strength. The stance must be deep, body completely upright, feet exactly paralell to each other and knees out over the toes.

 

In Shoshin Nagamine's book, Okinawa Karate, Matsubayashi-Ryu, Naihanchi is done in Kiba Dachi.

 

It was my impression it was always done in Kiba Dachi