The Literature Thread

[Cmon]

Personally Forest is mentally challeneged but Lennie is even more so. Lennie doesn't even know right from wrong. Forest does. And the facvt that Lennie doesn't know right from wrong doesn't help him land in good situations.

[cathal]

Anyone read "For Whom the Bell Tolls" by Hemmingway?

[monkeygirl]

Hmm since that didn't go far...how about...

"The Great Gatsby" by F. Scott Fitzgerald? I just finished reading it yesterday. Great stuff!! There were points where I literally stopped reading and just gawked at the book because I was just so amazed at how powerful and well-written it was.

So if you've read it (and you should!!!) discuss!

[cathal]

I read that, yes. I found it to be a very good story. The last few lines have always been of particular influence, especially in my karate training.

[monkeygirl]

This post contains spoilers about the ending of Gatsby, so if you haven't finished yet and don't want to know, don't read on...

I assume you're referring to the lines:

Gatsby believed in the green light, the orgiastic future that year by year recedes before us. It eluded us then, but that's no matter—tomorrow we will run faster, stretch out our arms farther....And one fine morning——

So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.

The first paragraph is very optimistic and could be viewed as inspirational, but I see it as being sort of cynical and depressing, actually. Gatsby believed in the green light, pushing harder and reaching farther every day, hoping that one day the effort will be worth it and he will find what he was looking for. But in the context of the story, we see that Gatsby's efforts were completely useless. He never got to be with the one he loved once and for all, because of Fate, or Chance, or whatever. He was murdered, publicly viewed as a murderer himself. Daisy never loved him the way he loved her, and he alienated her when Tom revealed Gatsby's past. Even if Gatsby had survived, the experience of Daisy hitting Myrtle would have probably destroyed their relationship anyway.

So my view of the last lines (especially the last paragraph about "boats against the current") seems to pessimistically point out how pointless the struggle to keep pursuing dreams like Gatsby's is, because uncontrollable factors like Fate, etc, can come along at any time and destroy you.

[isshinryu5toforever]

Spoilers here as well, because it is in reference to what is said above.

Fitzgerald believed himself a failure within his own lifetime, so it could be taken that Gatsby is a bit of Fitzgerald himself. Also, when you examine the time period that the piece was written in it wasn't really a time of great dreams. People lived and died in a mechanical way. They got up, went to work, came home, ate dinner, went to sleep, did it all over again. So, to Fitzgerald there wasn't really a good way to look at things. His father failed at his jobs and the family eventually just lived off of his mother's inherritance. How could Fitzgerald see himself as a success? His father was a failure so he was a failure too. In actuality most thought he would fade into literary obscurity. So, others viewed him as a failure too. Fitzgerald definitely didn't have a bright and shiny outlook on life.

[cathal]

Oh that last line, ever more powerful the more I read it.

[aefibird]

I like The Great Gatsby, but it's been ages since I last read it, so I can't really add anything useful to the discussion of it without reading it again.

I've just been re-reading Truman Capotes novels and short stories. If you've not read In Cold Blood then you so should!

[isshinryu5toforever]

Truman Capote is good. He wrote Breakfast at Tiffany's right? You know Neil LaBute is good too. He's pretty dark though. His one act play series bash:Latterday plays is good. If you don't know who he is he did the play and movies Your Friends and Neighbors. The movie had Ben Stiller in it, if you still have no idea who he is then I don't think I can help you. lol

[aefibird]

Yes,Truman Capote did write Breakfast at Tiffanys.