Traditional Muay Thai?

[Goju_boi]

I don't know what Cung Le is, but he is a san da/san shou fighter.And as for Jason Delucia ,just go to https://www.sherdog.com and look him up.He's not a san da/san shou fighter,he's a 5 animal kung fu fighter or something.As for the comparison of these two styles weaknesses/advantages.Both are practical and simple,as a matter of fact the point to wing chun is simplicity.I do agree that wing chun doesn't have good conditioning,but I'm guessing their technique makes up for it.As for foot work,wing chun just like any styles has foot work.As for defense for leg attacks I wouldn't really know because I don't practice it.The reson for little or no kicks is because it is a close quarters system.I'm also going to guess the reason for being linear is because linear attacks are faster and simpler,wich brings up again their idea of being simple and efficient.Also wing chun has both weapons and grappling.With that said I think it's far from innefective,and that goes for other chinese arts.One more thing I don't want to sound like I hate muay thai either,hate is the opposite of what I feel about it.It's just that I'm standing up for chinese martial arts.

[elbows_and_knees]

I have to disagree with you on saying that most chinese martial arts are useless.A lot of other styles came from chinese martial arts.You know why,because theyre great styles.

Actually, that's not true. They didn't come from chinese styles because they are great styles (not to say that they aren't, but what you are saying here is wrong) They come from their styles because their civilization is so old. chinese immigrants migrated to china, thailand, burma, etc. And they took their knowledge with them. THAT is why so many asian styles came from china.

There are a lot of showy movements in them,but they have hidden meanings behind them.

the thing about hidden movements is that unless you practice them, you will never train them. From my shuai chiao and long fist training, I know throws that will break your arm in mid throw. BUT, for safety reasons I cannot train them - they have to be modified and consequently look similar to my judo throws. In a real fight, I would not use the arm breaking throw. Why? because it's not ingrained in me - the modified version is.

Also theres some that have no fancy looking techniques,just look at wing chun.Speaking of wing chun,it's ancient and look how effective it is.

that's to blanket of a statement... I know wc guys that absolutely suck.

Some of the police in europe are even required to learn it.

they will learn anything you teach them. in the army, you will learn basic judo and bjj. there are spec ops teams that learn kali, thai boxing, jkd, etc - they learn from who able is able to get a contract with them. A buddy of mine teaches kempo to local police departments. That doesn't mean kempo is super-effective, it merely means that he was able to get a deal with them. Another buddy of mine (in a different county) teaches jkd and thai boxing to the police departments there.

You also have to be clear when you say that chinese martial arts are flashy.Because it's usually the northern styles that have those things,even then they still work great.Then there are the southern styles.These styles are usually close quarters styles with low kicks and some times barely any kicks.There's even a style that you can probably relate to.It's called San Da/San shou.This style is very similar to kickboxing,except that sweeps and throws are allowed,it's also full contact.

san da is NOT a style. it's a format, like MMA. it's a venue for chinese stylists to train full contact. That was the original intent. each school's san shou program will be based on it's primary martial art. Consequently, someone from a lama based san shou program should fight differently than someone from a hung gar san shou program. Also, there are far more differences between san shou and muay thai than the ones you named.

[elbows_and_knees]

You don't see any UFC or Pride fighters using any techniques from Chinese arts. And there's a reason why, it's because they don't even begin to compare to what they already use such as Muay Thai, boxing, wrestling, and Brazilian jiu jitsu. I've never seen Wing Chun used in any fighting tournaments and succeed. Even Bruce Lee gave up on it later in his life because it was too rigid and not practical for real life. I've seen clips of Wing Chun guys getting rocked by Thai fighters, boxers, and grapplers.

actually, there is a wc school in australia that recently did very well in local mma. Also, there is a tai chi school in canada that fields fighters who do well in local mma. Another chinese based competitor is sami berik. That said, there is a lot of crappy WC out there - but that applies to all styles.

Sanda/San Shou is a half assed lame attempt creation by the chinese to compensate for their losses against Muay Thai fighters for over a decade. Since the late 70's, Chinese martial artists got their * handed to them by Thai boxers. So they came up with Sanda.

since then there have been A LOT of san shou competitors who have defeated thai stylists.

Sanda is not a true chinese art. It really does not have any moves that are uniquely chinese. Their moves are borrowed from boxing, wrestling, and some tae kwon do.

yeah, it does. san shou is based on the movements of the CMA that initiated the program. the thing about san shou is that it is a venue - ANYONE from ANY style can compete in it. That is why cung le is able to compete even though he has had very little cma training.

[Jay]

i have seen really young people doing muai thai and they where really good

[elbows_and_knees]

So getting back to traditional MT or Muay Boran...

What does everyone think of the effectiveness of MB? How does it compare to MT?

I would guess that MT is more effective. From what I've read about MB, a lot of the techniques were lost from the ancient styles because the fighters realized that a lot of it was not practical in combat. For example, running up a person's body and kneeing them in the head. Because these techniques were thought to be impractical, they were discarded by many people - that was partially how muay thai came about.

[Goju_boi]

"that's to blanket of a statement... I know wc guys that absolutely suck. "

theres people like that in any style

"Actually, that's not true. They didn't come from chinese styles because they are great styles (not to say that they aren't, but what you are saying here is wrong) They come from their styles because their civilization is so old. chinese immigrants migrated to china, thailand, burma, etc. And they took their knowledge with them. THAT is why so many asian styles came from china. "

well I guess that's true also,but there are a lot of styles that have used kung-fu as their foundation.For example my style.In my style the founder learned kung-fu from his teacher and later modified it to be a karate style.And it's similar for other karate styles and other martial arts.

[Dark Shogun]

Thanks elbows_and_knees, I was about to abandon this thread.

I've never seen MB before (exept in that Ong Bak movie). Do you if MB is similar to other traditional arts like traditional kung fu or karate? Is MB mostly 'kata/form' based?

[elbows_and_knees]

theres people like that in any style

exactly. That's why you really can't go around making posts about how effective wing chun is. you leave to many variables open. Now, if you were to say "more effective than...", or "more effective against..." then you can more realistically make a comparison. For example, statistically, wing chun is not effective in MMA. That's not saying that wc isn't effective, but that in the venue of mma, it has yet to be so.

well I guess that's true also,but there are a lot of styles that have used kung-fu as their foundation.For example my style.In my style the founder learned kung-fu from his teacher and later modified it to be a karate style.And it's similar for other karate styles and other martial arts.

once again that is a civilation thing. japanese karate came from okinawa, which came from china. What he did was take his chinese art and give it an okinawan flavor. That's like the koreans taking a very japanese-esque tang soo do and giving it a korean flavor, creating tae kwon do.

[ThaiWarrior]

I would guess that MT is more effective. From what I've read about MB, a lot of the techniques were lost from the ancient styles because the fighters realized that a lot of it was not practical in combat. For example, running up a person's body and kneeing them in the head. Because these techniques were thought to be impractical, they were discarded by many people - that was partially how muay thai came about.

I thought thoses techniques were abandoned because they were too dangerous. You've already mentioned the running up to a person's body and kneeing them in the head -- I've read this technique always causes an instant KO. There's also the running up to the person's body while having one leg mounted on to his shoulder and deliver a sharp elbow strike right to the cranium. I've read this technique would most likely kill the opponent.

I thought these techniques were banned from the ring due to it's deadliness.

[Goju_boi]

is muay biran still being teached to people,and is it avilable in america?