Christians and Ki/Chi

[jarrettmeyer]

I'm with Snakeeel on this one. I'm a Catholic, and I have no problem with ki the way I understand its existence.

 

Ki is energy. We all have energy. Our nervous systems are the most incredible electricochemical designs ever. Learning how this biological system works and using it to the extent of its abilities is science, not superstition.

 

Where science and science fiction cross are all of those stories out there about "redirecting energy so your fist become fire" and similar myths. Believing in these stories is no different than believing in God. It's faith. You can't prove that they never happened.

[greenbelt_girl15]

Wow! Thanks for the responses so far this is realy helping me.I've posted pn this subject on a different forum and much of the responses talked of ki in a mystical realm it's good to get a new perspective on this.

Ok I know that people are going to jump all over me and my intention is to ask opinion rather than give one but how far of a reach is calling Ki the Holy Spirit. My wife is doing her semi regular christian push on me and in my limited understanding of the whole thing one has to pray to develop the Holy Spirit within as one has to meditate to deveop the ki within. I don't know and I am sure someone will tell me how wrong I am but it almost sounds like semantics to me. Please do not get angry at this post as that is not my intention in anyway.

 

I'm not mad at you It sounds like you haven't much info on the Holy Spirit that's all.

 

Okay in my opinion the Holy Spirt and ki are two entirly different things.As a Christian I belive that the Holy Spirit is the third part of the trinity(God the father, God the son, and God the Holy Spirit)The Holy Spirit is the part of God that lives in you when you become a Christian.I'm not sure develop would be the right word as you said in your post since the Holy Spirit is a being not a thing.But rather though prayer your develop a relationship with God.

 

Ki,I belive, is an inpersonal force though I'm not sure if I should put anything else on ki since I'm not sure what I truly think of it myself.

 

Forgive me if I come of as overly religius (sp?) I'm a bit of an evangalist.

[swdw]

Here's another example- my Sensei was involved in a study that used Kirlian photography. For those that think this only photographs auras- wrong. This photography captures specific types of electromagnetic fields. The greater the nervous signal activity, the greater the "Aura". This follows basic elctromagnetic theory. To put it in laymans terms-Any time you increase the electricity flow, the electromagnetic field (EM field) increases correspondingly. This is as consistant as the law of gravity.

 

In the study, the more experienced the practitioner, the greater the increase in the size of the field surrounding the body.

 

Physiologically, the more active the nervous system, the greater the muscle stimulation.

 

Couple this with increased oxygen efficiencyand increased red blood cell count as training progresses, recruiting more muscle fibers in the technique while the muscle groups opposing the technique become quieter, better balance and whole body coordination- you now have what is perceived as and increase in Ki.

 

Hitting accupressure points interrupts the nerve impulses downstream on the nerve trunk and sometimes upstream. Hence the prononced effect of striking these points.

 

In addition, 2 EM fields will interact. A strong EM field created by a larger electrical flow can stop or even reverse the current flow in a "conductor" with a weaker field. This is why very experienced martial artist can induce wierd things by touching a inexperienced person.

 

Ever see people"move there chi" to their hands? The palms turn red, the skin temperature increases, and this they called chi. Here's the real truth- the physiological response is increased nerve activity. This icrease the EM field, and increases blood flow to the palm, raising the skin temperature. Basically this is a VERY advanced version of biofeedback.

 

As I said, I can go on for hours on this.

 

No the Holy Spirit is not Ki. The body is capable of much more than most people realize. I came to this realization when I was taking acupressure and acupuncture classes.

 

Did you know that acupuncture has been tried with non ferrous (non magnetic ) needles and it DOESN'T WORK.

 

Back to EM fields. Inserting a ferrous metal into a EM field around a conductor changes the shape of the field, resulting in changing the electrical flow through the conductor . A non ferrous metal has no effect. IE, sticking a ferrous metal needle close to a nerve center (which all acupuncture points are) changes the electrical signals throught the nerves. Twirling the needle increases this effect as moving a ferrous metal through a field has a greater effect than a stationary object.

 

The smaller the electrical flow, the easier it is to change by doing this. Small signal- small mass of metal needed. Changing the electrical flow to an organ or other tissue can change the way it functions or the blood flow to the tissue. See the connection?

 

Just remember, if you think of Ki as the sum total of the natural pyhysiological responses of the body- yes it can be developed.

 

Enough for now, this should give you more to chew on for a while.

Edited March 9, 2005 by swdw

[Jbone1]

The Holy spirit comes from above. We all are part of God because he created each one of us. He knows us to the last hair on our head.

 

Anyway, though not all of us serve Christ the spirit within is not always at use. We have mind power that generates ki or chi. Along with the Heavenly Holy Spirit there are demonic spirits too.

 

It really depends on where your heart is.

[fangshi]

Okay in my opinion the Holy Spirt and ki are two entirly different things.As a Christian I belive that the Holy Spirit is the third part of the trinity(God the father, God the son, and God the Holy Spirit)The Holy Spirit is the part of God that lives in you when you become a Christian.

 

If you believe that than what part of the concept of ki do you feel interferes with your beliefs ? You have stated yourself that you believe that ki and God are seperate and last I checked God The father , son and holy spirit are the basis of the Christian way of thinking .

 

If I may I will bring in a small part of my beliefs into this to illustrate my opinion. Ki is the yin as the physical body is yang . Ki is not some mysterious force and it can be explained in many terms . Often people mystify that does not make it any less tangible .

[fangshi]

Actually Ki is more of a traditional eastern medicine concept . As some of the eastern spiritual practices tend to be more holistic ( mind and body) than their western counterparts they do include concepts of Ki or Chi or Prana or whatever name you wish to call it . Sometimes I think people mystfy things that they do not understand and do not wish to . Ki is somthing that exisists in all people it is not magic or evil or holy it just is and if people wish to project anyone of these meaningless perceptions on to it than it may change the perception of Ki but not the reality of it . It is simply the energy within .

 

As far as the whole throwing of chi balls and tossing people around the room with this imaginary superpower thing , well , people claim that it is real but from what I have experienced in my life it is just people talking . Looks cool in the movies though .

 

[Chaz]

I'm a christian, but my biggest question is how far we can take this through God. I belive in the gifts that God gives us and uses through us such, healing, prophecy, ect... I feel there can be much more to MA if you let God take you there, But of course, you must belive in him and have faith in his ability...

[JusticeZero]

Long ago, some peasant walked up to a martial artist practicing his palm strikes by breaking boards.

"How do you do that?" asked the peasant.

"Many hours of practice."

"You're lying to me! Noone can do that!" The peasant spit at the martial artist's feet and stormed off in a huff.

Another peasant approached.

"How do you do that?" he asked.

"It's just a matter of precision and having good body technique. See, you have to move so that you bring your hips and legs into the action of the strike."

The peasant spit at the martial artist. "You're lying! You can't punch something with your legs, that's silly! Noone can do what you're doing!" The peasant then stormed away, leaving the martial artist to his training again.

A third peasant approached. "That's impossible! How do you do that!"

By now sick and tired of being spit at, the martial artist shrugged, wiggled his fingers cryptically, and said, "It's magic. You have to be in touch with the chi of the universe."

The peasant bowed. "I understand. Teach me, o great one!"

There is something to be said for focusing techniques and meditation and the like, but in the end, people expect to learn about ki so they can throw Dragonball Z type fireballs, teleport around and pretend to be some sort of wu-tang Doctor Strange.

In reality, all the mystical feats i've ever seen are attributable to standard physics, psychology, and biomechanics, albeit often very hard to pragmatically explain ones. There are no fireballs, no magic star wars force, only skill.

[TheDevilAside]

I think Chi is nonsense, but if you're a sincere Christian, I don't think you'll drink fire and brimstone because you believe in it or practice it. But, as far as believing that Chi is the Holy Spirit within you, I think that's a bit far-fetched. Nowhere in the Bible does it talk about the Holy Spirit improving your physical health, neither does it talk about the Holy Spirit being the force of life, and it also doesn't talk about the Holy Spirit allowing you to accomplish amazing physical feats, such as the "unbendable arm". The Holy spirit, as it is referenced in the Bible, has "spiritual" attributes, not physical ones like Chi or Ki. Before talking about Chi and saying that it's electricity, energy, or improves your health, I would first take a couple of science classes, mainly in the area of biology.

Another thing, a lot of people are saying that Chi isn't mystical, it's pure fact or science. But I've never heard of any studies using scientific method that have measured Chi or observed its existence. If Chi is energy, wouldn't we be able to measure it?

Edited April 4, 2005 by TheDevilAside

[Mr Pockets]

Maybe... they're the same thing! Think about it- an invisible man with no hard evidence proving his existance, or an invisible energy with no hard evidence proving his existance (please note that I said HARD evidence). The bible makes no mention of Ki, nor does the Koran, or even the Kaballah.