Choy Lay Fut vs. Muay Thai

[Thaegen]

I am not saying, the frontal thrusting kick is the answer to low kicks. It is just 1 solution, but it is the only solution I train.

[SevenStar]

It will not be always perfect, but in my opinion it is wrong to think about blocking... For me a block is an attack that failed or was intercepted. Blocking just to block is not good.

 

understandable. But unless your timing is impeccable, you will have to block at some point. However, seeing as you don't like blocking, another thing we will do is step in and knee the kicking leg. so, instead of blocking at his shin, I am kneeing him. If you do that though, you will have to be ready to clinch or punch immediately, as you will be right on eachother after the knee.

 

Also, you train vt... so you do parries and limb checks, correct? a pak sao to the limb as/after it's been intercepted or redirected? that's not necessarily destructive. some people use gan sau to block kicks... not destructive either

we kick at the same time a frontal thrusting kick will always be faster than a non-frontal kick.... pure mathematical.

 

it will be faster, but may not land first. mathematics doesn't take the timing of the other person into it's equation. Also, don't forget that a "low thai kick" doesn't have to mean a roundhouse - it could be a teep, which is linear. depending on the thai boxer and who trained him, it may also be a sidekick.

[Ali]

And Ali, the three kicks from wing chun/tsun are good enough to counter lowkicks, the second kick(frontal thrusting kick) from chum kiu is very effective. You intend is to destroy. (knee, balls). If we kick at the same time a frontal thrusting kick will always be faster than a non-frontal kick.... pure mathematical.

 

Frontal trusting kick?

 

Is it something like Chinese Axe kick 斧刃腳?

 

I think this works only with shoes with very hard bottom

 

BTW, instead of saying right or wrong, I think you can spar with some friends who learn Muay Thai.

 

Then you can find out the possibilities and effectiveness.

 

Kicking the ball is by chance only.

 

And to destroy knee? I have to check this out again.

 

Anyway, I would meet my WC friend this Sunday

[Thaegen]

Sevenstar I only do WT for 1 year now. I have not the same knowledge as you in the MA.

 

But:)

 

A paksau to the limb, I don't know.. I haven't learned that yet.... Pak sau on an arm and by doing so trapping your opponent.. yes.. but pak sau on a limb?

 

Gan sau to block kicks? Mostly my arm falls in gan sau when someone tries to punch my stomach/kidneys (thus an attack to the lower body). Maybe a gansau can be used to stop a middle kick. but then in a combination with one arm in gansau and the other one in tansau. I think a gansau stops at your centerline. What looks like a gansau is a gwat sau (sweeping arm) which is used to stop kicks (but isn't ablock, because from gwat sau you go to a scooping arm (ko tansau) and throw your opponent back).

 

But again, I am only training a year in Wing tsun and a year means nothing. I could be totally wrong.. but what matters is taht I think about it:).

 

 

we kick at the same time a frontal thrusting kick will always be faster than a non-frontal kick.... pure mathematical.

 

it will be faster, but may not land first. mathematics doesn't take the timing of the other person into it's equation. Also, don't forget that a "low thai kick" doesn't have to mean a roundhouse - it could be a teep, which is linear. depending on the thai boxer and who trained him, it may also be a sidekick.

 

True, but I am assuming both have equal speed and equal skill.

 

Ali there are 3 kicks in Wing Tsun

 

Both are learned in the second form chum kiu.

 

They are side thrusting kick (wang chang guek), frontal thrusting kick (ching sun chang guek) and the slant thrusting kick (che chang guek).

 

I have no idea what the chinese axe kick is?

 

And I don't see the problem with wearing shoes? I am always wearing shoes, except I am home, sleeping or swimming..., I am not talking about fighting bare foot.. which isn't realistic.

 

But maybe a more experience WC could jump in, because like I said above I am only training for a year.

[ovine king]

i wouldn't say the front kick to the groin is going to beat the low thai kick.

 

in pretty diagrams, it might be a shorter path but the thai kick is potentially quicker in it's execution and it has a bigger more general target.

 

your kick has to hit a small target that is moving (the other guy is kicking remember) in order to get an effect.

 

the other guy just has to connect to get an effect.

 

don't just take my word for it. go to your local kick-boxing place (doesn't have to be thai boxing) and ask them to low kick you as you try to do a front kick to stop them. of course, this is to be done in a sparring/fighting situation where he isn't just going to be doing low kicks at you.

 

pak sau to the leg/low level is more accurately described as a gum sau.

 

gan sau to receive kicks would be the 'correct' gan sau from bil gee+dummy form, not the singular gan sau as done in the first form. put it this way, when you spar, you don't just gan sau by itself do you?

 

in anycase, to use or not depends solely on what is coming at you. in most cases, i wouldn't recommend using arms to take the kick when you can just lift your knee. lifting your knee gives you something better to recieve with, frees your hand and allows to step in straight away to break balance.

 

to the argument about having to block at some time.

 

the way i was taught is that the things i do are both blocks and attacks..... kinda.

 

let's say i have a guard up as you punch.

 

your punch meets my guard/arms.

 

if my arms are stonger then my arm movement is an attack.

 

if my arms are weaker then my arm movement is a block.

 

this is just going on about the initial pre-contack stage. what we do first isn't a block or attack, it is seen as an interception that might be biased towards being a fixed block or it might be biased towards being an attack but it's main priority is to be able to contain whatever is coming towards me.

 

if that makes any sense at all...

 

heck, this is something i'd have to show you.

 

or i guess i could just say "bil gee" and hope you get what i mean.

[Ali]

i wouldn't say the front kick to the groin is going to beat the low thai kick.

 

in pretty diagrams, it might be a shorter path but the thai kick is potentially quicker in it's execution and it has a bigger more general target.

 

your kick has to hit a small target that is moving (the other guy is kicking remember) in order to get an effect.

 

the other guy just has to connect to get an effect.

 

don't just take my word for it. go to your local kick-boxing place (doesn't have to be thai boxing) and ask them to low kick you as you try to do a front kick to stop them. of course, this is to be done in a sparring/fighting situation where he isn't just going to be doing low kicks at you.

 

ovine king has given a better clarification on the point than me.

 

By the way, in other forums, there is also very keen argument about

 

application on Wing Chun. Not that peaceful than here.

[dingyuan]

Hey Ali

 

What is "Sao Choy" really like, is it a long range or a close range move? I was just wondering if it has a longer range than my Center Gate Elbow?

 

If "Sao Choy" is a haymaker of some sort then I think Center Gate Elbow will stand no chance against it but rather only Outer Gate Elbow can match it's power.

[Infrazael]

dingyuan -

 

I'll answer that since I'm the only one who does CLF here lol. . . .

 

The Sao Choy is like a haymaker on crack. Haymakers are usually unbalanced, huge, slow swings that expose your entire body and leaves you extremely prone to fast, powerful attacks. Plus, it's like a hook, punching with your knuckles.

 

The Sao is quite different. The structure of the normal Sao requires the bow stance, with the arm thrown in a huge, diagonal curve. The striking surface is the entirety of the forearm. Think of the Thai roundhouse, but with the arm. . . . . kinda. . . . . (bad analogy i'm sorry). So it's basically a roundhouse punch.

 

The Sao is very much so a long-ranged attack. HOWEVER, I personally have used it for blocking as well as striking. Also, with the Sao as your striking arm hits, the other arms motions down to block any possible incoming attacks.

 

So, simply speaking, it's a very advanced haymaker lol.

 

Actually, elbows are a good way for trying to block against this, although I must advise you to have a strong stance, or else get crushed.

 

Peace