Centerline theory

[Traditional-Fist]

And a lot of them don't .

[Wong Fei]

And a lot of them just a little.

[Traditional-Fist]

That's cross-training for you .

[SevenStar]

And a lot of them don't .

perhaps - a lot of the older boxers used to punch vertical fisted - if' you're referring to wc punching. Many boxers still throw a hook punch that way. Turning the fist causes cust, however, which is part of why the fist now turns over.

also, the point I was getting at wasn't that tma guys have cross trained western punching, but that on some level, it's all the same anyway. Compare your man sau to a boxing jab...

[Traditional-Fist]

Point taken, however as you said "on SOME level it's all the same..." what I would like to say is that the difference in the OTHER levels can be infinitely more significant than a mere similarity between certain physical applications.

I am talking about aspects such as stance work, various types of tension/relaxation and even the different types of breathing involved (different concepts of chi), when applying the same techniques which may or may not have their western counterparts.

Even amongst oriental martial arts which may have much more in common with each other, many times techniques that look similar will ONLY look similar, because of the factors mentioned in the previous paragraph.

In kung fu there are punching techniques that look like the familiar karate punches. That is, IN one LEVEL. In practise however the delivery and the projection of power, and hence the penetration of energy is very different from one system to another. And these are two arts that are infinitely connected to each other. Now imagine the differences in a kung fu hook punch to the head and a boxing one.

Eventhough we are human beings and our fighting systems have common denominators it would still be unwise for the MA community to ignore fundemental differences that exist among different fighting styles, inspite of certain similarities or percieved similarities.

[SevenStar]

I don't disagree. My only point is that many parallels do exist. For example spiraling - sport fights spiral on some level - they use listening, following, pushing, yielding, borrowing, etc. but they don't name it like the chinese do. That doesn't mean that it isn't there on some level, just that it isn't named and classified.

[markusan]

Could I ask for some clarification of this centre line theory. How does it deal with attacks on the peripheries. eg hooks turning kicks to the head, punches etc to ribs, kidneys, leg sweeps etc.

[Traditional-Fist]

Sevenstar,

I agree with you.

But let me stress many techniques and concepts may be shared amongst different martial arts, the difference is in the levels involved as to how those techniques are applied and in how "deep" these concepts are taken. I.e. some arts may just scractch the surface of some theories and concepts whereas others will practise them in immensly profound ways. This is the difference that cannot be overlooked. This difference is also reflected in the longer time periods usually required to master traditional MA's such as classic kungfu and karate.

For example, one can argue that there are tai chi principles in most sport martial arts. There may be some truth to that. But how deeply are these principles followed? Does this mean that boxing and TKD are the same as Tai Chi? Of course not.

Tai Chi is an immensly rich and powerful martial art and in comparison to sports martial arts it takes a very long time to master or at least make applicable in combat. [it can also benefit the physical and spiritual health of its serious exponents in ways that sports MA's never can.]

Wether the sport MAs name (or not name) any given tai chi or other kungfu style's principles that they may possess becomes irrelevant, because for the most part they don't delve into these deeper concepts to any great extent in comparisson. What most of the sport MA's delve into are the more general concepts such as defense, attack, sidestep etc. which of course exist in the traditional MA's. I suspect this to be true when iit comes to the Central Line theory when it come to some, but not all modern martial arts.

Some sport MA's may use deep stances for training. So they may say "hey, we have deep stance training just like the traditional kungfu styles, but we don't use any fancy names for them"

But see if any of them can deliver a telling blow from any of these "impractical" stances and you will find that many won't even know that some of these "too" deep stances (including the horse stance) can be used in real fighting to deliver powerful strikes.

Same stances but different levels of practise - knowledge and understanding.

Anyway I am going on and on.

[EternalRage]

Could I ask for some clarification of this centre line theory. How does it deal with attacks on the peripheries. eg hooks turning kicks to the head, punches etc to ribs, kidneys, leg sweeps etc.

When I was still taking Wing Chun they told me to properly block circular attacks, you must face the attack with your centerline. This would open up your centraline, or the line from your shoulder to the target, and would make it easier to attack.

dunno how good this theory is, I stopped doing WC cuz I didn't think itd work for me.

[Traditional-Fist]

markusan,

In Wing Chun the centerline is always protected. Attacks on the peripheries are dealt with by turning and facing the attack and the point of contact WITHOUT exposing your own central line. Typical example: As you block a hook attack, you turn towards that attack while your other hand is hitting your opponents centraline - eyes, nose, throat/neck area solar plexus.

An advanced WC exponent can also use an effective low kick during the above counterattack.

In Wing Chun as in many other kung fu styles the central line, which contains some important vital points, is protected sometimes obsessively, because it is regarded as suicide to leave this line unprotected.

For more general info on Wing Chun have a look at https://www.shaolin.com/wingchun_martialarts.aspx

You can also search the net for more specialised sites on WC.