Lineage

[scottnshelly]

How many of you know your lineage? How far back does it go? How important is it to you? How did you get it?

 

I count two Instructors as there was a transition half way through my stint at my last dojo. They were both present at my Jr. Black Belt test. They both count at least two Instructors (different styles).

 

How do i go about getting their lineage? I have since lost contact with both. Would it be rude or weird for me to look them up just to ask that?

 

Thanks.

[Skeptic 2004]

I personally think lineage is very important because it ties you into the larger whole of the MA legacy, and you become a part of an ancient history and heritage. I don't think it would be rude or weird to get a hold of your old instructors, especially if you were close to them personally at some point. Unless there was some sort of falling out between you, I'm sure they would at least appreciate knowing how you are doing. Your instructors SHOULD know their own lineage to at least their teacher's teacher...er...your "great-grand" teacher. If they did some sort of traditional style, it should be relatively easy to figure out your lineage. I know nothing historically about non-traditional styles besides AKS (a non-traditional style I did back in high school) so I can't speak to them.

 

As far as my lineage goes, I have a direct link to "To-te" ("Toudi" in the old Hogen) Sakugawa. Allow me to illustrate. (*whips out chart*)

 

My main instructor is Mark Staal, whose teacher was Terry Gravelin, whose teacher was Doug Perry, whose teacher was Shuguro Nakazato, whose teacher was Chosin Chibana, whose teacher was Yasutsune "Anko" Itosu, whose teacher was Sokon "Bushi" Matsumura, whose teacher was Teryua "To-te" Sakugawa, whose teacher was Peichin Takahara. This is roughly a 250 year lineage.

 

I could shorten the list considerably if I considered Pat Nakata (my current instructor) as my main teacher whose main teacher was Chosin Chibana, etc. In either case, should I decide to teach someday (I've been debating whether or not I'm going to...leaning toward NOT at the moment) my students will have the benefit of knowing that they are the progeny of a nearly 300 year legacy. Other traditional styles realize similar benefits.

 

I wish I knew my family lineage this well...but my ancestors were slaves so that's shot all to heck.

[Sparkey]

I really like knowing my lineage, because then, when I read about particular people I can directly tie it into my knowlege base. I can take my Karate lineage back to Chotoku Kyan and My Kobudo Lineage back to Sekeichi Odo.

 

Karate:

 

Chotokyu Kyan

 

Zenryo Shimabakuro

 

Zenpo Shimabakuro

 

Jeff Nagata

 

John Taylor

 

Jim Craig

 

ME!!

 

Kobudo:

 

Sensei Seikichi Odo

 

Nick Flores

 

Gonzalo Flores

 

Jim Craig

 

ME!!

 

I wonder if anyone will ever include ME in THEIR lineage??!!

[P.A.L]

lineage is the first thing i try to figure it out in a new dojo , i pretty much know all of them

 

1- shorin ryu/Kenshin kai from Bob Kazar from Yokoyama from Nakazato from Chibana

 

2- shindow jenin ryu/shorin ryu/seibukan from Darell Craig from Eizo Shimabuko from kyan

 

3- White crane from Glen Thompson from Ronald Lindsey from Hohen Soken

[vertigo]

No, I don't think it'd be odd to know your karate 'lineage'. It's always neat to know. Just ask your senseis, I'm sure they'd be glad to talk with you.

 

My karate lineage is rather short, but takes me back to the general beginning of shotokan... My sensei is Robert Fusaro who trains/trained under Sensei Nishiyama and (earlier) Sensei Nakayama, who trained under Gichin Funakoshi.

[scottnshelly]

Thanks everyone. I haven't seen one of my Instructor's since my Jr. Black Belt test almost seven years ago. He left the organization to persue other interests (long story, but i will post if you're actually interested...). I don't know where he moved to or how to get ahold of him. I know how to get ahold of his Instructor, i actually spoke with him today.

 

My other Instructor left for the same reason about three or four years ago. I know where he went to, but it's still hard to get ahold of him.

 

My point is, even though i haven't spoken with them in four to seven years, it wouldn't seem out of the ordinary if i tracked them down to ask about their lineage? Would a phone call be rude, or should i come in person?

 

I feel silly asking these simple questions about my own Instructors, but i guess i don't know the proper etiquette here.

 

thanks.

[scottnshelly]

Also, i forgot to ask this on the original post:

 

Do you have a tree drawn out, or just written down or memorized? I think a 'family' tree would make a good framed piece on a wall somewhere that shows all the way up with all the branches and stuff.

[vertigo]

I'd say if you trained for a while with these Senseis, and were at your black belt test, you must have a pretty decent relationship. I don't think it would be odd to talk to them about their lineage.

 

Phone call/ in person?? hmm... I don't know, that's your call

 

And no, i don't have a written tree, it's just something I know. Good luck with your decision, and if you do, talking with your Senseis. Enjoy it! If you haven't talked to them for a while, they might also enjoy hearing from a past student.

[scottnshelly]

Thanks,

 

I guess i'm kinda nervous. The one that left so long ago...i kinda feel like he left on bad terms with the organization. he came back for my test, but not for anything else (none of my other tests, or anyone else's Black Belt tests). i'm not sure how he'd react.

 

The other sends me e-mails bout once every year, and i know where his new school is, so i don't have a problem calling/visiting him.

 

Anyone else in this situation with an Instructor who may or may not have left on bad terms?

[Shorin Ryuu]

My lineage is...

 

dangit...Skeptic2004 beat me to it.

As far as my lineage goes, I have a direct link to "To-te" ("Toudi" in the old Hogen) Sakugawa. Allow me to illustrate. (*whips out chart*)

 

My main instructor is Mark Staal, whose teacher was Terry Gravelin, whose teacher was Doug Perry, whose teacher was Shuguro Nakazato, whose teacher was Chosin Chibana, whose teacher was Yasutsune "Anko" Itosu, whose teacher was Sokon "Bushi" Matsumura, whose teacher was Teryua "To-te" Sakugawa, whose teacher was Peichin Takahara. This is roughly a 250 year lineage.

 

However, I differ in him in that I changed my "main instructor" to Sam Ahtye. I still hold dear my relationship with my first instructor Mark Staal, however, and still think of him as one of my sensei. Interestingly enough, Mark Staal trained under Sam Ahtye for a year last year, which is how I found out about him. Therefore, my lineage goes from Sam Ahtye to Doug Perry (and the same from there as Skeptic2004 listed above).

Edited February 25, 2005 by Shorin Ryuu