Whats the Difference between Brazilian and Japanese Jujitsu?

[TJS]

Isn't it interesting that we only trust things that have had media coverage and marketing behind it. Just because money is involved doesn't mean that is going to attract the Master of MA's to come out of the woodwork and fight. I think BJJ is good for what it is, a ground fighting art, but it is not a complete fighting art. Just because some of their practitioners fight in NHB tournaments doesn't mean it is any more effective in a real situation than Combat MA's. I would say real situations are far more unpredictable and weapons may come into play. BJJ has little to no weapons training and that is their weakness. Also seeing every confrontation as a competition is dangerous.

 

TKD has more marketing and media coverage than just about any other MA....I'll tell you how much I trust it..

[Treebranch]

Good point about TKD, but think about the general publics perception of MA's. They only know about the MA's that have good marketing behind it, and that they've actually heard of. Like I said before, just because it's popular doesn't mean it's any more valid than anything else.

[TJS]

I agree 100% popularity dosent mean something is the best in the MA world...alot of people rule things out simply because they havent seen them used..im not one of those people, although we both know there is alot of * out there in the ma community.

[Gumbi]

The reason why JJJ was so popular on the battlefield was because, just as you pointed out, it involved weapons. Back then, hand to hand combat for a samurai was stressed about as much as hand to hand for a common marine (which is virtualy nil).

 

If THAT is your argument, then yes, I'll agree- Its like saying that a sniper is a better weapon than a pro NHB fighter for warefare, theres no denying it, HOWEVER, the hand to hand of BJJ had been MUCH more successful than TJJ and that can also not be denied.

[AngryMatt]

The reason why JJJ was so popular on the battlefield was because, just as you pointed out, it involved weapons. Back then, hand to hand combat for a samurai was stressed about as much as hand to hand for a common marine (which is virtualy nil).

 

If THAT is your argument, then yes, I'll agree- Its like saying that a sniper is a better weapon than a pro NHB fighter for warefare, theres no denying it, HOWEVER, the hand to hand of BJJ had been MUCH more successful than TJJ and that can also not be denied.

So you've been in the Marine academy I see. Spoken like a true BJJ fanboy.

[Treebranch]

I totally agree TJS, your right.

 

Gumbi you are very wrong with your analogy, it's a bad one. You don't understand the simple fact that shooting a gun is a long range weapon and a projectile. A sword, stick or knife is not. You have to absolutely know how to fight, move and use your body to use weapons. Are you forgetting that if in fact they were fighting with weapons, both sides had weapons and were trained. Also the fact that you had to "kill" more than one person in a given battle. I don't know any weapons master who is not a master of hand to hand. You can't separate the two, it just doesn't work when it takes your body to wield a sword or spear for that matter. But I'll assume that you have never had weapons training or you would already understand this. Don't you think your skill doesn't have to be higher when you and your opponent both have 3 foot razors in your hands and you are probably going to die? Ridiculous, there's absolutely no comparison. Now I'll give you one thing, there are probably very few people today that have fought this way in real life, but that doesn't mean the MA that they are learning is invalid or won't work.

 

BJJ has been more successful than TJJ from what we've seen in competition, yes. But that also has to do with the practitioner, the rules and the context. NHB doesn't mean "DEATH MATCH", don't you think the fight would be very different from what it is now if this were the case? You don't seem to understand the difference between a contest and a real situation. I'm not talking about the situation where there is some smack talking and pushing that turns into a fight. I'm talking about someone attacks you with the full intent on ending your life. That kind of dynamic is not taught in BJJ, because if it was they would tell you the ground should be avoided at all costs. You can't run when you are on your back. You'll be very surprise with what we know.

[AngryMatt]

As my sensei has said many times: "Brazilian Jujitsu is a fantastic sport. But it is still a sport. I love rolling with those guys once or twice a week. Brings back good memories of wrestling in high school and college. Always fun to roll. But what good is it going to do in a fight if all I know are submissions and no strikes? If I'm on my back and a guy who is 150 pounds heavier than me is in my guard or has a full mount is blasting me, how am I going to get an armbar or even a sweep without losing concentration on blocking those hard shots. If I miss one block, I'm probably knocked out."

 

So the key? Learn to adapt, learn to react, learn to "be like the water." Learn the strikes and get in a position where you're not working off your back. How is working submissions going to help if you're in a bar or alley or something? It's not. What will help is knowing how to block those knife strikes, those drunken hooks, so you can lock up the limb or return a strike and then walk away.

 

Is BJJ a bad art? Hell no. Is it beneficial to you? Absolutely. Gives you a fantastic base - much like doing swordwork these days is obsolete but it works your balance well. BJJ will give you huge advantages in a sport situation. But it's a sport, not a combat art. Now is that a knock to BJJ? I don't think so. It just has a different goal than Budo Taijitsu, one no less honorable than any other goal of a martial art. That's all.

[TJS]

But what good is it going to do in a fight if all I know are submissions and no strikes?

breaking someones arms or choking them to death dosent end a fight these days?

If I'm on my back and a guy who is 150 pounds heavier than me is in my guard or has a full mount is blasting me

 

So you would rather not be a good ground fighter If someone larger than you takes you down and end up on top of you? Or are you one of those people who cant be taken down and will never end up in that position?

how am I going to get an armbar or even a sweep without losing concentration on blocking those hard shots

You seem to be uner the impression all jiu jitsu is sport jiu jitsu..I dont even know where to start there but to say there are several stratagies for defending punches fromt the gaurd whil looking for a submission or to get up.

If I miss one block, I'm probably knocked out."

Same applies if you are standing..invalid point.

 

lastly you seem to be under the belief anyone trained in BJJ will flop to their back and pull gaurd in a real fight...trust me if i get in a fight and i do decide to take it to the ground im going to be looking to be on top.

[Gumbi]

So you've been in the Marine academy I see. Spoken like a true BJJ fanboy.

 

How about one of the regulars I train with who was a sniper in the marines for a number of years? Howabout my training partner whos in the marines and coming out of Princeton University with an Officers Rank (and teaches BJJ to his comrades). How about my coach who was in the Army for a number of years, winning wrestling titles while in there.

 

I can prove my reasoning through statistics and results- how about you?

 

Oh, spoken like a "true" Traditional martial artist.

[Gumbi]

As my sensei has said many times: "Brazilian Jujitsu is a fantastic sport. But it is still a sport.

 

Yeah I get it, hes way too deadly to fight in a Mixed martial art competition. Biting and eye gouging were the ONLY restrictions in these MMA tournaments, and OFTEN THEY WERE IGNORED. Fights were not stopped should the rules be broken, but fighters were merely fined afterwards for their infractions. Fighters DID win after they were bitten and eye gouged by their opponents, proving that they were far from out of the fight.

 

LETS ASSUME that all your deadly pressure points really work, but you cant use them in MMA (though there are no rules saying so, we'll neglect this FACT). 90% of your techniques are STILL LEGAL in these competitions. If you're art can ONLY work when Im trying to KILL someone, then it really doesnt say much about the flexibility of it does it? Wheres the logic in this? I can kill someone at will, but if I get into a fight with a belligerent drunk, I have to accept my beatdown?

 

 

But what good is it going to do in a fight if all I know are submissions and no strikes? If I'm on my back and a guy who is 150 pounds heavier than me is in my guard or has a full mount is blasting me, how am I going to get an armbar or even a sweep without losing concentration on blocking those hard shots. If I miss one block, I'm probably knocked out."

 

This particular scenario is exactly where you'd want to be skilled in the ground. If your opponent has a full mount, you'd better know how to escape, or else you're in for a world of hurt, and striking arts arent going to teach you how to do that. As far as getting a lock while trying to block these strikes- its hard, no one said it was easy, but with more training is becomes progessively less difficult.

Learn the strikes and get in a position where you're not working off your back. How is working submissions going to help if you're in a bar or alley or something? It's not. What will help is knowing how to block those knife strikes, those drunken hooks, so you can lock up the limb or return a strike and then walk away.

 

Its not? Choking someone unconcious isnt going to help you whe you're in an alley or bar or something? Breaking their arm isnt going to persuade them not to hit you with it? I work at a bar, its done a great job so far. As far as fighting with strikes or grappling, thats a matter of preference, but lets say you lock up a limb and return a strike- your opponent doesnt like that and comes back and hits you- all of a sudden you're in a fight.

Is BJJ a bad art? Hell no. Is it beneficial to you? Absolutely. Gives you a fantastic base - much like doing swordwork these days is obsolete but it works your balance well. BJJ will give you huge advantages in a sport situation. But it's a sport, not a combat art. Now is that a knock to BJJ? I don't think so. It just has a different goal than Budo Taijitsu, one no less honorable than any other goal of a martial art. That's all.

 

You're WAY off base here- BJJ was NOT developed as a sport. It was created by fighting on the streets of Rio de Janeiro. You realize some of the techniques are similar, but its mostly the training methods and methodology that set the two apart. BJJ has PROVEN itself in fights, both on and off the street and I have documented recorded proof of it- FAR more than Budo Taijitsu.