Is this guy for real??

[CapitalKarate]

angela, sorry hun, but i think you're the only one here who even gives a care at all to those fake ranks. he's *, i really doubt he has any true training, as sauzin said, he sounds a lot more like a businessman as opposed to a true wise (not to mention humble) martial artist.

[Muaythaiboxer]

i like your boxing quote very much scottnshelly.

 

to me if your not proven in real fights or have good ring experience your not that impressive.

[Shorin Ryuu]

I'm not familiar enough to know which system he is doing, or trying to do, but I know dillman has been making claims for years that he is the sole possessor of OSensei Soken's "Secret" one touch, no touch knockout techniques. He as never been able to verify any of these claims, and the only thing that has been verified (from what I understand) is that he worked out with OSensei for a day or two...period.

 

Anybody knowing OSensei, and most of my instructors had trained with him prior to his death, knows that OSensei wouldn't pass on ANYTHING of real value to someone just for the asking, or some guy (especially American) that trained with him for a few days.

 

Right...I'm aware of what he claims, which is downright shady. However, his more legitimate principles and techniques are awfully reminiscent of Oyata's stuff. Of course, there are more similarities and differences between Ryukyu kenpo and Shorin Ryu, anyway. He does claim Oyata to have been an "important teacher" of his and says he learned much from him.

 

As a side note, I have several videos of Oyata doing bunkai, and they are very, very nice.

[Sam]

Ok before we get into a nice little arguement "he's crap" "no hes not" "yes he is" "hes behind you!!!!"

 

Angela - everyone's not necessarily saying he has no skill, but to blatantly mis represent yourself and your achievements as he as is obviously not the right thing to do, this is the main thing everyone is saying. If you are to extend this arguement and say well if you have to mis represent yourself to feel good about your achievements you obviously have some insecurity in your ability - which is generally not something a 9th dan should have (insecurity). It also shows one of two other things:

 

(1) He doesnt understand that he is mis representing, believes that the dans are realistic and so doesnt understand martial arts truely - extend this to say he is not a good martial artist.

 

(2) He is PURPOSELY** mis representing himself and his achievements, blatantly devaluing the martial arts he is claiming to have high dans in. He is also potentially causing damage to his students (see other posts on false beliefs in ability).

 

However this is not a complete extension of (2) as i dont know his fighting ability (as below) and after 25 years he may be very adept. All we're saying is that adept or not, he is mis representing his true achievments showing he is more concerned with image than skill, suggesting he may have always concentrated on image above skill - meaning 25years may not have taught him that much.

 

**also if he is doing it on purpose then this obviously shows he is not a good martial artist (note no comment on fighting ability is implied here - martial artist isnt just about fighting people- more on the moral side of things now) as he feels it necessary to "pump up" his image which isnt what we're (as MA-ists) abouts.

 

OK im done with my politicised ranting there... enjoy

 

[oh and CapitalKarate - under 3 yrs in TKD - just cos TKD is popular doesnt mean there arent still proper TKD schools out there - its sudden popularity has caused alot of McDojo to appear which damage its reputation; all martial arts (bar few) have schools that offer low time-served black belts - but i agree there are loads of TKD Dojangs out there like that]

[AngelaG]

Look my personal opinion that there are attributes that a good MArtial Artists should have - these are humility, dedication, truthfulness, loyalty and other such positive traits. However not everyone subscribes to that belief - and to automatically dismiss someone because they don't care about the more traditional values would be a mistake IMO. I wouldn't even want to venture an opinion on whether he is a great MA or not unless I had got on the mat an trained with him. I certainly have better things to do than smugly decry people I hadn't even heard of, let alone trained with.

 

I really don't understand why people care so much about what other MAists out here are doing?! I'm secure in what I train with and if someone wants to call themselves 15th dan, I don't care!! The only ability I can judge truely is mine, and that of people I train with. The only people whose credentials I care about are those that I chose to instruct me. People are judging him for displaying those grades, and saying that it shows the wrong MA attitude, well I think it shows the completely wrong attitude to come on a forum and start judging and insulting people and dojos that you know nothing about and have no vested interest in (not to mention lack of tolerance). Live and let live. How humble are all those that think they can sit in judgement?

[Sam]

Hmmm... fair points - but you are still missing mine - i keep saying Im not commenting on his ability to hold his own on a mat.... or in real life...

 

What i am saying is that the trait of misrepresentation is proportional to MARTIAL ARTS - i am not talking about fighting: martial arts as you so well explain has a humble side to it - im happy to say well done to him for stcking with it for 25yrs, but i can say he doesnt truely get the idea of MA.... but if you havent noticed i never said IMO - i was explaining other peoples points of view as i understood them (and i say "we" as in those of us on the forum as there are many... and yes i should have said "they"). I am not commenting on his ability - only the image he presents and the ideas gained by other MA-ists b/c of the mis representation

[Sam]

I am not also criticising him or his dojo - I am just saying what is suggested from analysing his mis representation - i do apologise if i gave you the idea i was being insulting....

[I-Self]

George Dillman was a good Japanese style karate-ka- Shito Ryu I think. He didn't know any real Okinawan karate, but he was looking for a slant a new way to make some dubloons ($$$). He attended an Oyata Sensei seminar to learn more about Ryukyuan Kempo. He realized that the Shito kata he learned didn't have a firm grasp of bunkai, and especially of the ti techniques (Oyata calls them "tuite"). He learned some of the Okinawan Kenpo principles, then he sought out one of the most knowledgeable and venerated karate shinshii on Okinawa, Hohan Soken. He met him and Kise through a senior student of theirs, James Coffman. They really only met briefly and never exchanged any info or techs.

 

Later he sought out Ron Lindsey Sensei, also a senior student of Kise, Kuda, Kinjo, Takaya and GM Soken. From this meeting he got a hold of "Fusei kise's PP Notes" which he later changed to "Hohan Soken's Secret Notes". Well they were originally from Soken, but Kise had them translated in English when Lindsey Sensei was president of Kise's Kenshinkan org in the 80s.

 

He trained with Lindsey for like a few days. Then was never seen again. Next thing you know he's the number one authority on the hidden bunkai in kata and kyushojutsu. Ridiculous and criminal. Guys like Coffman and Lindsey have been doing Matsumura Orthodox Shorin for decades. Someone like Lindsey makes little off the karate he teaches, and lives a very humble existence in Bastrop, Texas. Not only is Dillman spreading false ideas based on real ones (which he never knew), but he is stealing the soul of traditional Okinawan karate, a rapidly dying species of MAs.

 

These things that Dillman wanted to learn, but never did, take years and years of hard work, partner drills, breaking up the individual movements of kata, practicing on a resisting partner and most of all massive repetition of the purest forms of kata using correct biomechanics and real science.

 

All that aside the reason I know this stuff is because Sensei Ron Lindsey is my teacher, and every Matsumura Seito person who is serious gets that same copy of "Fusei Kise's PP Notes". There really is nothing to them, and they are a version of the "Bronze Man" statue talked about in the "Bubishi".

 

Here's something interesting for you folks who think that people just like "hating". Most real MAs types don't. They just hate to see what they do misrepresented then commercialized to extinction. This is taken from Sensei Jimmy Coffman's SMOKA site. Enjoy:

 

From someone that was there when Dillman met Soken:

 

http://www.smoka-usa.com/

 

On June 26, 2002 I called George Dillman. (During the conversation George's wife Kim was also on the phone.) During our conversation I asked George why he claims or claimed to have studied under Kise and Soken, when I know for a fact that he had never studied under either one of these Great Masters. George stated that he never has claimed to have been a student or studied under either Kise or Soken, but he did have a three hour private lesson with Soken right after the tournament was over.

 

(1972 Pa.)

 

George than stated that he had received a private three hour lesson from Grand Master Honan Soken, in Shoken's hotel room. That he would do a kata than Soken would do one. They each did three kata. George stated that what impressed him the most was that Soken did not even break a sweat during or after completing his kata's. George than went on to say that Kise had never impressed him.

 

Ok, so here we have another story from George Dillman making claims that he thinks can not be verified or will not be questioned.

 

What is wrong with these statements made by George Dillman?

 

1st.

 

There where no eye witness's other than Soken, Kise and George. Very convenient. However Kim (George's wife) says that she and some of their students waited in their hotel room for George to finish his class or meeting or whatever with Soken/Kise, before the long drive home. Now Sensei Soken as we all know has passed away. So that leaves Sensei Kise and George. Now we know what George is claiming. But why does Sensei Kise state that this private lesson never happened. When I have asked Kise several times. Kise says: “Dillman never had a private lesson with either of them, Soken or Kise.”

 

2nd.

 

Why would a Grand Master like Honan Soken grant a private lesson to a man that he has never trained, seen nor met before this date. Answer: “he would not have”

 

3rd.

 

As we (all of those that were there) know Master Soken became sick during his stay before the tournament and Soken had to leave for Okinawa within a couple of days. Another question: Why would a sick Grand Master give a unknown a private lesson when in fact he was sick. Answer: “He would not have”

 

4th.

 

Why would Soken do kata for George Dil

 

lman in the first place? Answer: “He would not have” If you went up to Soken or any Grand Master, and asked him to do a kata for you, Would he? ..... NO

 

5th.

 

Why would doing six katas, three by Dillman, three by Soken take three hours.

 

Answer: “It would not”

 

6th.

 

Again why would a Grand Master get up and do kata for a nobody when he had his Protegee “Fusei Kise” beside him at all times. Answer: “He would not have” We all know that if in fact any katas were done they would have been done by Kise, Sokens top student, not by Soken. Kise says it did not happen.

 

7th.

 

My real question (to George) is this: Could George have gotten his story mixed up from the meeting that Soken, Kise, Jim Coffman, George Dillman, Bob Peters and a couple of others had, in Grand Masters Sokens hotel room, After the tournament? This was where Kise/Soken was giving out weapons as gifts, that they had brought from Okinawa. I picked a set of Sai. George was given a set of Tonfa.

 

Do you think George has this meeting mixed up with his fantasy dream?

 

As to the Four mentioned people that are making false claims as to

 

"Grand Master Hohan Soken" they are the weakest link.

 

"George Dillman, Glenn Premru, Tom Hunnicutt, Charles Garrett"

 

George Dillman: Never studied under or with Grand Master Hohan Soken or Master Fusei Kise. FACT

 

New! - Glen Premru

 

"Do ya think he just wants me to go away yet?

 

Sensei Coffman, you may feel free to use any of this on your weakest link page and feel free to quote me as you like."

 

-Rick

 

Glen Premru: Never met Soken or Kise before 1972, and never was promoted to the rank of JU-DAN BY SENSEI SOKEN. FACT

 

This a response by Sensei James Coffman to the information

 

on the Okinawa Karate Federation Web Page by Glen Premru. RESPONSE

 

Tom Hunnicutt: It is my belief that Tom Hunnicutt never really trained under Soken, based upon his karate, and that he made up his system as he states. FACT

 

Charles Garrett: Is nothing more than a 2nd Degree or 3rd Degree (at best) under the Matsumura Seito system of Hohan Soken. FACT

 

Raymond Gonthier: Ray never studied with or under Grand Master "Hohan Soken". FACT

 

However, Charles Garrett is the closest of the four that actually trained with Sensei Soken.

 

You probably want to go back

 

HERE

 

Web address:

 

Dillman: https://www.dillman.com

 

Premru: https://www.okf1956.com

 

Hunnicutt: https://www.geocities.com/colosseum/bench/6102

 

Garrett: Search: okinawan karate Charles Garrett

 

Disclaimer:

 

Comments stated on this page and throughout the website are mine alone, James H. Coffman.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

VERY interesting and informative. I hadn't heard about this tournament, hotel room, other people present and such before in regards to Dillman's claims of working out with OSensei Soken and learning all his "secrets".

 

I've been a Matsumura Seito practioner since January of 1975 under Sensei Dennis Miller, one of Sensei Kuda's American students. Sensei Miller hosted Sensei Kuda on his first trip to the USA in June of 1978. This is when I was tested and passed by Sensei Kuda for my shodan. There are pictures of that visit at the bottom of this webpage. I'm the tall, skinny guy with Sensei Kuda.

 

http://www.geocities.com/rohai.geo/page.html

 

I have the greatest respect for Sensei Lindsey's skills, experience and knowledge. When he was the head of Sensei Kuda's organization, I had talked to Sensei Lindsey a number of times. He had, unfortunately, a falling out and parted ways.

 

Thank you for this information...it is well received by myself.

[I-Self]

VERY interesting and informative. I hadn't heard about this tournament, hotel room, other people present and such before in regards to Dillman's claims of working out with OSensei Soken and learning all his "secrets".

 

I've been a Matsumura Seito practioner since January of 1975 under Sensei Dennis Miller, one of Sensei Kuda's American students. Sensei Miller hosted Sensei Kuda on his first trip to the USA in June of 1978. This is when I was tested and passed by Sensei Kuda for my shodan. There are pictures of that visit at the bottom of this webpage. I'm the tall, skinny guy with Sensei Kuda.

 

http://www.geocities.com/rohai.geo/page.html

 

I have the greatest respect for Sensei Lindsey's skills, experience and knowledge. When he was the head of Sensei Kuda's organization, I had talked to Sensei Lindsey a number of times. He had, unfortunately, a falling out and parted ways.

 

Thank you for this information...it is well received by myself.

 

Lindsey's knowledge, skill, know-how and refinement are higher now than at any other time in his life. Every lesson with him is phenomenal. He is completely dedicated to preserving Soken's, Kise's and Kuda's original teachings.

 

Sensei Lindsey still has a memorial with Kuda Shinshii's picture set up in his dojo. He is quite reverent of him, even after he had stepped down as president of Kuda's worldwide Matsumura Kenpo organization. I think that Ron felt that the Kenpo form of Seito was straying a bit from it's Seito roots and becoming more and more like Okinawan Kenpo. I know he didn't like the business of some Okinawan sensei giving out rank just because someone got them lunch or something. Whatever the reason for the falling out, he never speaks ill of Kuda, which is more than I can say about his opinion of other masters (not based on their knowledge or skill but their intent and recent actions).

 

I'm just here to inform and it's good to see all the traditionalists on this site, Japanese, Okinawan or otherwise. To you Okinawan style "MMAs" types I say good training! After all Okinawan tode was definitely one of the first MMAs. Peace...