karate against weapons

[cathal]

Rejecting the crescent kick off hand and judging anyone as goin to their deaths in using it is rather arrogant I think. Yes there is a myriad of ways to disarm an opponent with a knife. Rather than go through them all I merely suggested one option. If you'd seen the crescent kick I have, you would not be so judgemental; and yes, it was used against a trained fighter.

[pineapple]

The crescent kick is quite effective, in my experience.

 

Cathal. have you disarmed a person in a real fight?

[Shorinryu Sensei]

In all my 30+ years in the martial arts, I've only seen one person that had a kick so fast and accurate that I think he could get away with it. I don't remember his name, but he showed up at a tournament we had in this state and he was frequently scoring with a cresent kick to his opponents head. Man, that guy was FAST!

 

His system? French Savate. He was from somewhere in Canada ... Calgary I think.

[cathal]

Cathal. have you disarmed a person in a real fight?

 

Yes I have. Immediately after the kick both our friends broke us up.

[cross]

Yes there is a myriad of ways to disarm an opponent with a knife. Rather than go through them all I merely suggested one option.

 

The option you suggested would probably be the last option on my list of techniques against a person with a knife.

 

How many knife fighting styles do you see teaching the cresent kick as a possible disarm technique?

[cathal]

I'm not familiar with all the different styles, I'm afraid. I know Shotokan, and some Jiu-Jitsu.

[Sauzin]

Rejecting the crescent kick off hand and judging anyone as goin to their deaths in using it is rather arrogant I think. Yes there is a myriad of ways to disarm an opponent with a knife. Rather than go through them all I merely suggested one option. If you'd seen the crescent kick I have, you would not be so judgemental; and yes, it was used against a trained fighter.

Trained in what?

 

I have trained with some excellent kickers and seen some very fast and accurate crescent kicks. In fact mine aren't that shabby either. I have also had the opportunity to work with and observe some trained and skilled knife wielders. Having seen both I have to say against the way they were training even the fastest crescent kick would likely get you killed. All they would have to do is move in slightly and let your leg come to the blade. The femur artery is right there and the motion and direction of a crescent kick would literally guide the blade right across its target. You'd be dead in minutes. I mean think about it. With a crescent kick you are literally swinging the inside of your leg in the direction of their blade. Sure you are targeting their knife/grip with your foot, but one quick shuffle and their blade is right against the inside of your thigh. Opportunistic knife fighters train to slice at whatever comes at them. Using your leg in this manner would be like trying to beat a shark back with a salmon.

 

This isn't me being arrogant. These are basic combat principles. Why attempt to disarm someone by offering them one of your most vulnerable targets? Why offer more vulnerability then is absolutely necessary? There are plenty of effective, and often one shot moves that don't so readily expose vulnerable targets. If you are going to teach or use one technique why not choose one that doesn't involve using your furthest weapon attached to one of your largest arteries to disarm the thing that is targeting it. It doesn't matter how good your kick is, the principle just doesn't make sense.

[MASIsshinryu]

Beyond this, which I certainly agree with, even if you choose an outside crescent, to avoid exposure of the vital areas on the inner side of the leg, you face the very real possibility of suffering a crippling injury.

 

What it breaks down to is this: You will be attempting to move a large portion of your body mass a distance of as much as 3', in order to get the lower leg/foot into contact with your opponent's knife hand. In contrast, that opponent needs to move as little as 6" to shift that hand out of position. Assuming that you are at proper range to not expose your upper leg to a slashing injury, you are still putting your Achilles tendon in very close proximity to the blade. Assuming your foot is even close to vertical, and the thug is holding the knife also close to vertical, a slight drop in knife elevation puts your Achilles dragging right across the blade. End result: sudden inability to evade or escape effectively.

 

My instructors have always stressed the importance of achieving control of the weapon, through control of the arm.

 

One humble opinion.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

There's also another thing to consider here. If your arm is cut badly, you can still fight or run. You won't be able to if your leg is cut badly and you can't stand on it.

 

In a knife fight, I would use my kicks if the opportunity presented itself, but they would be low kicks aimed at the knee..possibly the groin depending on the situation. The higher your kick goes, the more likely it is to get cut.

[cathal]

I'm really not feeling any hostility from you folks but its hard to not be defensive when everyone seem to be impying that I'm lying. You've said that you've seen incredibly super-fast people use it and it worked, well I'm not going to comment on that because I haven't been around as much as you guys.

 

It definitely isn't my place to argue the finer points of knife defense, especially with Shorinryu Sensei, as I'm not as experienced in martial arts as he is. The only thing I know is this: it worked.

 

Sauzin, to answer your question I'm afraid I don't know. I was a long time ago but there weren't many other styles being taught in my area at the time. It could be Chito-Ryu, Goju-Ryu, TKD, or TSD. I wasn't the guy's friend so I never bothered to learn much about him. After the fight we stayed away from one another.