Stances in Kumite

[Fish]

I was just wondering - how are different stances applied to kumite, or are they not applied at all. When we spar, we tend to be in fighting stance most of the time. If stances are not applied to kumite, then what is their point?

[Chirath]

In real fighting we use short natural stances. But in Kumite we use stances like Kokutsu Dachi. This makes getting point easier. Changing stance also confuses the enemy in kumite. I kinda hate point sparring as it is so fake. And I can't really think of any situation were you will use long exageratted stances. I think to score a point you need correct stance. So they are important for point sparring.

[Shorin Ryuu]

The perceived lack of utility derived from stances in kumite can be boiled down to one main thing: the limited nature of kumite.

 

By that, I mean that the reason behind many of the more "esoteric" stances (a term I use rather facetiously here) does not exist because there are so many principles, techniques, attacks and defenses that you will not do in kumite, mainly because they are against the rules or will not be given an opportunity because they usually are in response to things that are also against the rules. For the record, we don't use ridiculously long, deep front stances in our kata either, let alone our kumite because I don't see too much of a need for them.

 

But back to answering your question. What did I mean? Well, in the first place, if your kumite does not incoporate grappling or are even allows you to hold an opponent, then that eliminates the need and opportunity for whole sectors of the fighting paradigm, let alone stances. Much of the weight shifting (done to your center of gravity or your opponent's) is not needed simply because you're not manipulating his balance to take him down, you might just be doing it to hit him. If you're not going to throw the opponent or take him down and he isn't going to do the same to you, then there isn't necessarily a need for many of the deep stances that you see. Many of the stances are responses to situations that simply are off-limits in kumite. No, not built-in automatic, carved-in-stone responses to specific, narrow techniques, but conceptual responses to certain circumstances regardless of the actual technique.

 

Also, if you are not allowed to attack below the belt, than another important function of specific stances is also eliminated (tying along with the first point) which is to attack specifically your opponent's base (read: the legs). Many stances are actually manipulations or outright attacks against your opponent's legs, which are against the rules, are also things you will not see. This goes beyond simple sweeps or things like that.

 

As a combination of points one and two, another function of these stances you won't see in kumite is after you've taken the opponent down, the legs are applying a lock or otherwise attacking/controlling the opponent when he is on the ground as well. Once again, you won't see this if you aren't going that far.

 

Lastly (for now), I use various stances in kumite. Even in straight out punching/kick/block only kumite (which I do with very little frequency due to what I perceive to be its limited training utility), there are various stances you can employ to aid your movement and positioning and manipulate that of your opponent's. This holds true even if you are only kicking, punching and blocking without grabbing and only above the belt.

 

If you really do need me to cite a laundry list of things you can do with regards to stances both in more "complete" kumite and rather "limited" kumite, then perhaps you need to talk to your instructor or senior students in your dojo. They should be able to tell you.

 

You will have to forgive me if I sound a bit critical here. If your interpretation of the utility of stances is limited basically to "If he and I squared off a couple feet from one another, what stance would be practical now in this kumite match?", then you are woefully undeveloped in your analysis of what stances actually are. Saying the utility of stances is limited because they aren't found in kumite is looking at it completely backwards. It is because kumite is limited in and of itself that you won't find as many of the stances in it.

[Killer Miller]

I love this topic. Stances are so important and yet so misunderstood... There are three primary factors of stances: Basics, Kumite, and self defence (real world).

 

Basics:

 

Basic stances are developed in their slowest/fastest/strongest application of their potential use. This is where the stance is very proper identifying each component of a stance for development of the art.

 

Kumite:

 

Kumite generally has a specific set of rules. This is for the use and application of competition and as a report card (so to speak) of what you have learned and how well you have learned the art. However, the real time use of stances do not "appear" to be so basic in its use. The stances may be longer or shorter due to lack of proper training or effort of applied basic stances. Secondly, the stances may be quicker when in the exact basic posture, during the nano-second of kime, and may not appear to most to be exact technique of basic stances. Third, stances used in Kumite may be a hybrid or variation of one or two stances developed in the basic fashion. Finally, stances used in Kumite are generally limited to more linear stances because you are only facing or challenging "one" oponent or attacker.

 

Real world use of stances:

 

Here is where "all" the basic stances are used or potentially used. You have the possibly of multiple attackers where any mistake(s) could cause you severe harm or death. Your need of various stances, and in their exactness, becomes highly elevated. Here you may have only one attacker or you may have multiple attackers. You potentially have the need to use "all" of your basic stances including any variations used in Kumite.

 

Please don't mis-understand the use and development of basics of any form or format. You have a need to develop and use them. It will make you better in Kumite as well as it could save your life when needed. Immagine two people attacking and you return in a weak or improper kokutsu-dachi, you fall back in the process and the attackers beat you to a pulp! Not a pretty image...

 

- Killer -

[pers]

Stance is the first important thing in Karate ,infact in any physical activiy .In karate we learn from basic forms diferrent stances ,on later years when you start doing kumite and sparring your basic training should allow you to move freely between stances with speed and fluidity but also having a firm grip on the floor .

 

you can have a powerfull hand and a supple kick but if your base is weak or can't move well in a stance then your technique will be weak or an experienced opponent will take advantage of your sloppy stance.

 

My fighting stance is zenkutsu dachi with my back foot facing the front ,in defence I would shift to side or back into kukutsu dachi , I use sochin dachi instead os zenkutsu acoarding to the angle of attack .

 

I have played in goal in football for many years and I realised after some years of not playing football and just doing Karate (from 3rd kyu to shodan ) when I returned to football ,I was amazed of how much my goalkeeping has improved ! my reflexes and coordination and agility was much much better than before ,then I realised it is because of Karate and my stances ! especially Kiba dachi !

[Fish]

Shorin Ryuu - forgive my lack of knowledge. Of course it's woefully inadequate, that's because I am a beginner, and it just occurred to me after sparring yesterday that I wondered how stances should fit in.

[Shorin Ryuu]

That's fine. And I did not mean to come off as sounding mean. Sadly, your question is not only asked by beginners though. In many cases, people that have been training long enough to know better (well, there is a difference between "training" and "getting better") state that because those stances aren't in kumite, there is no use for them. My response to them is the same as I gave for you...

 

One thing I would suggest is asking questions like that before/during/after class. It shows a willingness to learn. Sometimes it does help to think about it somewhat deeply before you do. They might just turn it around on you and say "I don't know. What do YOU think of stances in kumite?" (This is a trick used by teachers and seniors either to force the student to think for themselves or to get out of answering the question).