Kata or fighting

[Skeptic 2004]

Edit: bleh. I had something to say, submitted it, changed my mind and decided not to say it. I don't know how to delete posts (or if that's possbile)...

[delli04]

Yes drag'n...

 

The type of sparring i was referring to was indeed semi contact sparring. I probably should have should have clarified that.

[MASIsshinryu]

I have enjoyed and benefitted from Kata far more than kumite for quite some time.

 

As previously stated, for the opportunity to hone the individual techniques, the visualization and for the sense of peace and focus it brings.

 

Kumite is not without value, as it does stress timing and control of space and movement, but creates one strong challenge. You will do, in combat, what you have done with repetition in training. If your rules of engagement do not allow full force contact, your reflexive techniques will lack force and/or control. If your rules of engagement restrict target areas, you will probably fail to make use of very effective techniques utilizing them, when under stress.

 

Let's not forget that the Masters from which many of the more popular styles have been handed down did not use what we recognize as Kumite. Most had nothing more than Kata and repetition training with tools like a Makiwara to hone their arts.

[SevenStar]

Kumite is not without value, as it does stress timing and control of space and movement, but creates one strong challenge. You will do, in combat, what you have done with repetition in training. If your rules of engagement do not allow full force contact, your reflexive techniques will lack force and/or control.

 

I think that is the issue here - many people are thinking in terms of light contact point sparring. I am speaking from a full contact perspective.

 

 

If your rules of engagement restrict target areas, you will probably fail to make use of very effective techniques utilizing them, when under stress.

 

on the other hand, if you are doing the techniques full force but on an imaginary opponent, you may not have the timing, distancing, etc. to pull off your techniqeus when you need to when under stress. I fail to see what you mean by "fail to make use of very effective techniques" - if I can KO you with a hook punch, it was more effective than the eye gouge (for example) that missed it's target...

 

 

Let's not forget that the Masters from which many of the more popular styles have been handed down did not use what we recognize as Kumite. Most had nothing more than Kata and repetition training with tools like a Makiwara to hone their arts.

 

Let's not forget that the jujutsu masters did the same thing - and that they were schooled when kano and his judo guys went against them...

[MASIsshinryu]

Great responses. Thank you.

 

I certainly prefer Full Contact Kumite. My reference was for what seems to be the vast majority that do not go Full-Force in day-to-day training. Light contact, or even moderate contact, kumite builds up the reflexive response that can frequently fail to deliver power under stress.

 

Failing to make use of techniques, in this case was a reference to kumite were limits such as "no contact with the neck or groin" are part of the rules of engagement. If your oppenent leaves open the side of the neck, but your training has precluded practicing strikes to that area in a realistic manner, you may well fail to make use of the opportunity, because you will not be programmed to respond to that.

 

I must admit, I do not know much at all about Kano and the phase of judo / jujutsu history you have referenced. Thank you for the reference. It will give me a new topic to read!

[SevenStar]

anytime. I'll try to find some links. In a nutshell, the old school jj guys maintained that randori was an unnecessary part of training and that kata and drills were all that was needed. Kano, on the other hand, was afirm believer in randori. A challenge ensued between kano's group and the police jujutsu team in 1885. kano's group won every match.

 

In 1886, another tournament was organized, this time against the yoshin ryu, which was considered the stronget jj group in japan at the time. Of the 15 matches, kano's group won 12, lost 2 and had one draw.

[karategirl06]

Fighting! I love sparring with the instructor and im the only one brave enough to do it. plus I enjoy getting hurt and hurting him...lol, dont ask, im werid!