no pain, no gain?

[taiji fajin]

"no pain no gain" is a philosophy used in many external martial arts. Everything from extreme workouts that make your muscles sore to hitting hard objects to "harden" your hands, legs, etc. What do people think of this philosophy?

 

Personally, I use to like it, but now dislike it. While doing some "damage" to yourself is necessary (simplistically, muscle grows by tearing and then healing), the way most people take this is not good. An injured leg does not heal stronger. A dislocated shoulder is more prone to injury in the future. "Working through" a knee, ankle, or wrist problem makes it worse, not better. I am not suggesting that we do not do physically demanding exercises. Far from it. I am just saying, I prefer the philosophy, "nurture, nurture, nurture" over "no pain no gain." If my wrist hurts, I am going to take it easy on it.

 

Side note - this thread came about after reading someone's "style" - Most hardcore style ever where you have to break your own bone to pass a black belt test because it's that hardcore and street effective and hardcore.

 

Trying not to attack this person, but hardcore is breaking a bone? I consider someone "hardcore" when they can do standing meditation for hours and hours, when they can dedicate their lives to practicing a martial art, not 30 minutes a day, not a hour a day, but 4, 6 or more hours every day, in a way that is truely taxing, not just physically tiring.

[Shorin Ryuu]

Well, first of all, I think that person was merely being facetious and sarcastic rather than serious.

 

As far as hitting hard objects to "harden" your body, that is actually meant to strengthen, not harden (a subtle but important difference). In terms of things like the classical Okinawan makiwara, it had give in order to prevent actual damage to the hand and joints within the body. All training was meant to to be done very gradually and very patiently, avoiding injury at all times.

 

Many Japanese people, after the introduction of karate to Japan in the early 1900s, saw the makiwara and would pound away relentlessly and recklessly from the get go. I used to, till I wisened up (after a few months of hitting it sometimes literally a thousand times a day, I figured squishy knuckles WEREN'T healthy). Some of these Japanese people would purposely break the knuckles, thinking it would grow back stronger than before. All they got for their trouble were large misshapened and unusable hands. The purpose isn't to build knobby knuckles (which you can, I suppose), but to have the practice of hitting something (as opposed to air), practice using techniques that required contact with an entity beyond yourself and energy transfer, and to train form.

 

I think the experience of pain (but not injury) is perhaps necessary to get you used to the feel of it so it doesn't paralyze you in a fight. This isn't an advocacy of going extreme and overboard like many people do, however.

 

I agree with most all of your other statements, however.

[Hudson]

Hehe, that's MY style!

 

I was being totally facetious, and I certainly didn't mean for you to spawn a thread over it. It's something I say to a friend of my who is a Muay Thai stylist and has the philosophy that trees and poles make the best leg training partners. I just pray he'll be able to walk when he's older.

 

But since we're on the topic, my REAL philosophy is more of a property of equality (You get out of it what you put into it?). There is, after all, no such thing as something from nothing, yet it seems to be what people go after these days. You know, lose 30 pounds on Miracle drug X, stack 10 pounds of quality muscle on with Miracle Supplement Y, etc;

[krzychicano]

No pain no gain. I should get it tattoed on my chest.

[David]

I basically agree with the first 2 posts.

 

Striking a balance (haha) between common sense and the little voice on your shoulder egging you on to extremes is difficult.

 

My most recent injury was a sprained shoulder from sparring. Could I let it recover? No. It wasn't until 2.5 weeks after the sprain that I finally managed to stop pushing it and gave it a rest (only in the painful rotation angles) for 2 weeks.

 

Pain is required to de-sensitise you to the shock of pain in a real-life encounter. This should not be underestimated. Potentially painful training scenarios should not be avoided because the risk of pain is not an helpful excuse when martial development is at stake, and the expectation of pain is good for your will/intent.

 

Damage will have debilitating echoes down the road. I think physio-rehab is one of the least successful areas of health practice. Look after yourself inasmuch as you can. My teacher provides ointments for flesh and bone which have been handed down over the generations.

 

Rgds,

 

David

[SevenStar]

"no pain no gain" is a philosophy used in many external martial arts. Everything from extreme workouts that make your muscles sore to hitting hard objects to "harden" your hands, legs, etc. What do people think of this philosophy?

 

I think the philosophy itself is fine, but I think it can get abused, which is what you are talking about...

 

 

An injured leg does not heal stronger. A dislocated shoulder is more prone to injury in the future. "Working through" a knee, ankle, or wrist problem makes it worse, not better.

 

there is a difference between hardcore and stupid. perhaps not everyone realizes that.

Trying not to attack this person, but hardcore is breaking a bone? I consider someone "hardcore" when they can do standing meditation for hours and hours, when they can dedicate their lives to practicing a martial art, not 30 minutes a day, not a hour a day, but 4, 6 or more hours every day, in a way that is truely taxing, not just physically tiring.

 

that's a stylistic difference. don't consider staning meditation hardcore physically - mentally, but not really phisically. Three hours of bjj, judo or thai boxing? phycially hardcore, but not necessarily mentally.

[taiji fajin]

Glad to see most people here agree with me, and that it was a facetious comment about the "style." I think its amusing you say that to him. Hopefully he'll give his legs a rest and let them heal up.

 

I hate, HATE the idea of "take this drug and you'll be thin." "Do this simple task and you'll be rich." etc. There are so many things wrong with it I'll stop myself now before this rant is 5 pages long.

 

The abuse of the philosophy, pushing through pain and injuring yourself, here's to hoping we can stop people we know from doing it.

 

One last side note - I agree there can be physically hardcore, I was just giving an example. Lots of dedication is hardcore, pushing yourself to injury is not.

[Nick_UKWC]

Most hardcore style ever where you have to break your own bone to pass a black belt test because it's that hardcore and street effective and hardcore.

 

Oh how I laughed the first time I read that, right up my street

 

I think as far as the saying goes it's a matter of common sense. If your objective is to condition your leg then kicking a lamppost and breaking your shin is obviously not going to give you any 'gain' but then neither is kicking a pillow lol.

 

Hmm, perhaps 'No Pain No Gain' could also be expressed as 'There's no such thing as a free lunch' i.e. don't expect something for nothing

[Snakeeel]

Trust me when I say that you will pay tomorrow for what you do to your body today.

 

Why hit something hard when there are some many nice soft targets to go for?

[Mr. Mike]

oh yeah, My left hand is never the same since I used incorrect punching techniques on a board break when I was 17.

 

13 yrs later, I can tell you when it's going to rain...all the old-timers here will concur...knees, shoulders, lower backs...they are pretty much the world's best weathermen!