Difference between Chang Quan and Wing Chun

[Emei89]

Hey someone asked me the difference between long fist and short fist and i'm too tired to answer plus i figured that it would be nice to have a whole page full of people from both sides answers, and since i'm just a long fist student i don't want to be biased.

[Ali]

a) Wing Chun

 

- Kicking usually not to be higher than waist

 

only 3 kinds of kick technique <--- correct me if I am wrong

 

- Punching usually Sun punch continuously and punch from

 

the middle of chest

 

- 膀手pong shao is very unique WC techique of defence

 

- Sticking hand is very unique WC way of training

 

- Despite of having 6 - 7 different school of Wing Chun, at least they

 

have 3 boxing form, 1 butterfly knives form, 1 stickplay

 

- Middle to Close fighting range

 

b) Long Fist

 

I do not know which long fist you learn <---- Hopefully not Wushu

 

Long Fist usually refer general term of some Northern part of China Kung Fu. Their fighting style is similar.

 

- More combo of kicking and higher than waist

 

- Punching usually from waist

 

- More weapon form

 

- Longer fighting range

[ovine king]

er.... y'know 膀 (pong) we pronounce it 'bong' (as in tie up).

 

it might have something to do with yip man and how he changed some of the names slightly.

 

i.e small learning set - small idea head.

 

can't confirm this though.....

 

3 types of kick yes, but different versions there-of

 

i.e low stomp kick/roll foot kick/used as a stop-trip instead of a proper kick.

 

y'know, we multi-task movements.

 

technically, it isn't really long fist/short fist.

 

it's long distance bridge/short distance bridge.

 

when people say long fist, they are usually refering to long fist as in the style (northern shaolin with base being the 12 tan tui).

 

long distance bridge styles play at a different distance and at a different level.

 

they tend to use more changes of level in their movements (attack at all levels) and use the classical stances more

 

i.e drop into cross to drop weight then 'jump' to forward bow.

 

short distance bridge styles use body structure differently.

 

in general, they use a higher, more natural stance that aims to create a solid grounding and then use body allignment to generate higher reaction forces from the ground up.

 

they tend to be more compact in execution and there's more emphasis on hand techniques (mantis+wing chun+pak mei)

 

there's also a whole host of in between styles.

 

hung kuen can be called short bridge and long bridge.

 

pak mei has long bridge elements.

 

wing chun can be played like a long bridge style (although that kinda defeats the object of wing chun...)

 

going back to northern shaolin long fist.

 

if your close contact fighting is good, you're basic tan tui (esp those leading to throws) can equally be used short range bridge style.

[Emei89]

hey thanks for all the replies. those are perfect.

 

ovineking: Remember awhile ago we were debating wether or not masters used forms to hide certain techinques? i have a good site thats really interesting. it talks about it somewhere in the middle of the page. it doesn't give the same reason as my sifu told me, but it acknowledges that thing were hidden none the less.

 

http://www.kungfuloung.com.tw/for4.htm

[ovine king]

not quite.

 

what that article says is that it was common for sifus to teach form after form with no reference to actual application.

 

nothing about having hidden moves in forms.

 

if you go back to what i said,

 

if the sifu doesn't want you to know, he simply wouldn't show you it.

 

(it's known that sometimes the sifu would simply leave out a small but vital section)

 

even if they do show you a complete 'proper' form, some of the movements (not always the same as technique) have multiple applications not all of which you will get easily because they might rely on knowledge and experience with another form.

 

i.e one form might have the grabbing+pulling motion+stance change

 

and another will have a advancing step+balance disruption+attack of some sort.

 

full training that the article talks about is teaching of form and applications.

 

talk to the karate guys and ask about bunkai (and iain abernethy).

 

training isn't just about forms, it's about using forms.

 

this is something that still goes on; the article refers to it as form chasing and is something that happens more in the older styles where movements are a little more obscure.

 

too often people (kids?) think that the more forms they know the better they are.

 

they miss the point that the guy who only knows one form but knows how to apply everything from it is in reality the better student.

[Emei89]

right. yeah like i said they don't quite give the same reason but i pretty much said the same thing.

[ovine king]

you said:

 

"they wanted to conceal thier technique so they disguised as sort of a dance"

 

not the same as what is said by me and the article.

 

to clarify.

 

the article (and i) say that the use of movements weren't always taught.

 

you say, techniques are hidden (deliberately).

 

i can teach you a form in a week.

 

i can then tell you to practice the form until it is perfect.

 

or i can teach you the form bit by bit, slowly, showing you how to use it outside of the form (and how/why that movement is used).

 

at the end of the day, the form is the same.

 

it's just that one way teaches you how to apply, the other teaches you how to perform.

 

nothing is hidden as in both ways you are doing exactly the same types of movements.

 

that's not even going into what constitutes realistic training methods.

 

anyway, the point is, forms don't always show (fixed) technique.

 

more often than not, they show types of movements that you modify into applicable 'techniques'.

 

it seems that for whatever reason, peole have got it into their head that if it looks like a punch then that's all it is and forget that in reality, a punch is just a straight forard extension of the arm with a clenched fist.

 

the same movement can be modified into a palm thrust, arm break, lock, interception, block and generally whatever you need.

 

when someone says it's a hidden technique, it's just them not realising that things don't have to be exactly as they are in the forms.

 

it's this ignorance/stupidity that leads them to think/say "hey, it's not in the form, it must be secret/hidden"......

[Emei89]

or fact?

[ovine king]

....and of course there's also the marketing implications.

 

it sounds more attractive to the generally ignorant to toll people that you know/teach the hidden secret techniques of the forms.

 

you get more customers that way.

[Emei89]

well i wasn't told that when i started and you don't know my sifu so you really can't judge what kind of person he is, not to mention there are other sources that say that, that are genuine.