origin of katas

[ps1]

Not to be too morbid, but I've also learned the opening movement of Bassai Dai to be an assination choke used on someone from behind while seated in Seiza. Imagine, if you will, having someone dig their thumbs in behind the trachea while while crushing it, then a strong knee strike to the back of your neck and a quick jerk. Lights out! However, this is one of the more greusome of at least 20 explinations I've heard from various "masters" and Sensei.

 

Remember, Kata are like legos. They don't necessarily need to move sequentially in the practice of Bunkai. At the beginning level we usually teach bunkai in that manner. However, when my advanced students practice, I have them use Bunkai for every movement.

 

For example. The first movement of most of your beginning kata is likely a down block (which I've seen interpreted as a block, hammerfist, throw, and elbow strike, among other things). However, to the advanced eye, it's the crossing of the arms before the "blocking movement" ever begins. They can be an entire technique or series of techniques. As Anonymous One said, it's there to be explored. And to paraphrase Shorin Ryuu, "nothing is superfluous!" All the movements have combat value.

 

P.S. Well said anonymous one.

[VinnieDaChin]

katas originated in china when the opium trade started getting really heavy. this grandmaster of whatever kungfu style it was, was really high and hallucinated that he was fighting people who werent there, and all his students were watching him and thought they had finally discovered his secret at being so good a fighter. when confronted with this, the grandmaster was so embarassed he just went along with what they thought they had discovered, and martial artists have been doing katas ever since.

[ovine king]

i never knew opium was hallucinogenic.

 

by the way, forms were recorded way before the opium trade.

[Shorin Ryuu]

Um, I don't think he was being serious.

[AnonymousOne]

Empty handed combat forms aka kata, existed long before MA, as we know them, were in China.

 

These forms can be traced back to Gladiators and perhaps long before that in ancient Greece.

 

It is not known where such forms were developed. But certainly as long as warfare has existed, empty handed combat forms also existed.

 

On a scale of things; China is a relatively new comer to such forms and its long been believed that Gladiator empty hand combat techniques were introduced to China when the Romans made their way to China in the 1st and 2nd Century BC. It is believed that the Romans taught the Chinese such forms and combat techniques

 

China was not a developer but rather was a refiner of such forms.

[1kickKO]

The writer of Alice & wonderland was constantly on opium...he also hints to that with the caterpillar smoking it...ummm...don't ask me why I just told you all that...my day is boring.

Edited February 15, 2005 by 1kickKO

[P.A.L]

Empty handed combat forms aka kata, existed long before MA, as we know them, were in China.

 

These forms can be traced back to Gladiators and perhaps long before that in ancient Greece.

 

It is not known where such forms were developed. But certainly as long as warfare has existed, empty handed combat forms also existed.

 

On a scale of things; China is a relatively new comer to such forms and its long been believed that Gladiator empty hand combat techniques were introduced to China when the Romans made their way to China in the 1st and 2nd Century BC. It is believed that the Romans taught the Chinese such forms and combat techniques

 

China was not a developer but rather was a refiner of such forms.

 

any references?

[AnonymousOne]

Empty handed combat forms aka kata, existed long before MA, as we know them, were in China.

 

These forms can be traced back to Gladiators and perhaps long before that in ancient Greece.

 

It is not known where such forms were developed. But certainly as long as warfare has existed, empty handed combat forms also existed.

 

On a scale of things; China is a relatively new comer to such forms and its long been believed that Gladiator empty hand combat techniques were introduced to China when the Romans made their way to China in the 1st and 2nd Century BC. It is believed that the Romans taught the Chinese such forms and combat techniques

 

China was not a developer but rather was a refiner of such forms.

 

any references?

 

You would need dig into Roman and Grecian history at the library. Many historians have written on the topic

[ovine king]

"China is a relatively new comer to such forms and its long been believed that Gladiator empty hand combat techniques were introduced to China when the Romans made their way to China in the 1st and 2nd Century BC. It is believed that the Romans taught the Chinese such forms and combat techniques"

 

doesn't quite make sense when you also consider that china already had organised army/fighting as early as 1000BC.

 

(earliest stone chinese weapons being around 6-7000 years old, earliest metal weapons 1000-2000 years old)

 

i don't think anyone really spread anything anywhere.

 

i'm pretty sure that ALL cultures had fighting systems of their own.

 

any contact with other cultures would only have shown people what others so; whether or not anything was 'passed on', as it were, is anyone's guess.

[VinnieDaChin]

the romans? what? okay, my other post here was funny- no one can dispute that. but the romans? thats just lame.