To train in Karate, Muay Thai or BJJ

[senna_trem]

Infrazael wrote:

 

"MO, Muay Thai will own any Karate, except Kyokushin (full-contact), because of the harsh training methods and just the purely effectiveness of it. ".

 

No Muay thai will not own any Karate or any other style . I wonder why people always get this idea.

 

Thaegen: But Muay Thai is a good kick-boxing style, correct? And provides a good challenge for most forms of karate? I disagree with the "owning" part as well, but I need a little more elaboration.

[Bama Crimson]

I attended my first BJJ class last night and loved it. I am going to stick with BJJ as a ground martial art. But what about standing up. I know Muay Thai is good, and have also looked at Krav Maga.

Both seem to use punches, elbows, knees and kicks, making both seem effective.

[Fu Man]

I attended my first BJJ class last night and loved it. I am going to stick with BJJ as a ground martial art. But what about standing up. I know Muay Thai is good, and have also looked at Krav Maga.

Both seem to use punches, elbows, knees and kicks, making both seem effective.

For stand-up fighting, why not Isshin-ryu Karate?

Right now, I am studying Isshin-ryu Karate and Kodokan Judo. It's a good combination, in my opinion. However, Brazilian Jujitsu and Isshin-ryu Karate is just as good.

Ted

[SevenStar]

a few things to consider:

1. what you are looking to get out of a style.

2. the quality of the school.

3. the environment you are looking for.

Visit each school, ask questions, participate, etc. make your decision based upon that. I personally would lean toward thai boxing, but then if I visited the school and the quality of the training was poor, I'd look elsehwere.

[SevenStar]

No Muay thai will not own any Karate or any other style . I wonder why people always got this idea.

because of it's track record. muay thai is a fighting sport that's been successful both in and out of it's own venue. you can't really say the same about alot of other styles, as many don't have such well established competition records, only alot of hearsay.

And again no.. if you your condition is weak it's your fault. I do Wing Tsun and we do almost no condition training. And my condition is pretty good, but then again I also do Triathlon.

 

If your condition is weak it's your fault and not the martial art you train in.

I disagree. It is your style's fault. part of the reason that bjj, wrestling, thai boxing, boxing, judo, etc. have the respect that they have is because of the training they offer - they get you in fighting shape. If a style does not do that, then IMO, that style is flawed.

[Bama Crimson]

For stand-up fighting, why not Isshin-ryu Karate?

Right now, I am studying Isshin-ryu Karate and Kodokan Judo. It's a good combination, in my opinion. However, Brazilian Jujitsu and Isshin-ryu Karate is just as good.

Ted

Isshin-Ryu seems like a good art. I visited a school in my town, and it was real quality from what I could tell. I wanted to join but....

Class are Tuesday and Thursday during the day and Tuesday and Thursday nights. It does not work out with my schedule. I have BJJ on Tuesday night, attend school Tuesdays and Thursdays, and play hockey on Thursday nights.

[Bama Crimson]

a few things to consider:

1. what you are looking to get out of a style.

2. the quality of the school.

3. the environment you are looking for.

Visit each school, ask questions, participate, etc. make your decision based upon that. I personally would lean toward thai boxing, but then if I visited the school and the quality of the training was poor, I'd look elsehwere.

Sounds like good advice. I am looking mostly for self defense. BJJ seems to be good for sport and self defense, but lacking stand up and use in multiple opponent situations. Most of the guys I do BJJ with are more interested in the sport aspect and are draw to MT for that reason.

[Thaegen]

Sevenstar:

"I disagree. It is your style's fault. part of the reason that bjj, wrestling, thai boxing, boxing, judo, etc. have the respect that they have is because of the training they offer - they get you in fighting shape. If a style does not do that, then IMO, that style is flawed."

No, it's not. The style isn't flawed, maybe they way the classes are set up is. I don't like the fact, that there is no condition work like MT in our classes.

An avarge MT fighter will have a better condition than most other MA fighters. The reason is simple, cause it's provided in the classes.

In the school where I train WT it is not provided. In my opinion this results in weak fighters. So an avarge WT practioner would get his * beaten by a MT practioner. Simple because the training method of MT is better.

But this is not the fault of the style. What happens is that there is a great difference between the persons who do take it serious and train outside the classes.. (in my example triathlon, rope skipping, push ups, pull ups, medicine ball, bag work) are better than who only do the classes and have a worthless condtion. Even if their techniques are better, they can't win.. for teh simple reason they are exhausted way to fast. They started with a better technique..but cause they have no reserve/condition their techniques becomes extremly bad/sloppy.

Now you can say, that their condition don't have to be good, because a fight in RL doesn't take long. Which is true.

BUT in a RL situation you will almost never fight against one opponent. Atleast two opponents (it's not that a thug will say." Ah there is someone walking with his gf. Let's take him one a one." Reality is this. 'ah let's take rob that guy and harras his gf, I will try to distract him and you hit him from behind. " And this are only two opponents.

It will go fast, they will try to surround you which is easly doable with just two opponents.

And here is the fact why WT shines in my opinion. It's brutal and effective. You unleash your rattle/spring and you advance and keep attacking.

While other sport MA have a better condtion than other MA, they "maybe" fight different. You can't deny that MT/KK/Taekwando/boxing works like this. Try to get inside the defence/find an opening/ hit a couple of times, retreat a bit.. tries to seek again for an opening...

Now you can say that it isn't true in your case, that you aplly your art different. But the avarage fighter will fight like he fights/spar in competions.

You fight indeed like you train. But training doesn't exist merely out of classes.

Now about ground arts. It is good if you know some groundfighting, it is only USEFULL when you fight against 1 opponent.

Like I said in RL situations, you are extremly lucky if you are fighting 1 opponent which is rare. So if you are fighting two opponents and you get to the ground with one opponent the other would just kick your head to pudding.

I am rambling:)

But here is something else... they say you can always run. Which is true, I can run long and fast. But you are not always alone. You are with your gf/ you are with your little children.... running is not the best solution.

So again what gonna help you the most in a RL situation a MA which is effective/brutale, where you fight/train without rules and your only goal is to destroy.

No fancy kicks/ no jumping/ no stumbling on the ground.

[SevenStar]

Sevenstar:

No, it's not. The style isn't flawed, maybe they way the classes are set up is. I don't like the fact, that there is no condition work like MT in our classes.

An avarge MT fighter will have a better condition than most other MA fighters. The reason is simple, cause it's provided in the classes.

In the school where I train WT it is not provided. In my opinion this results in weak fighters. So an avarge WT practioner would get his * beaten by a MT practioner. Simple because the training method of MT is better.

I see your point, but the style itself may not be set up for that. I've never been to a traditional school that offers the conditioning of a sport style, and for a reason you touched on later in your post - a fight is SUPPOSED to end quickly.

Now you can say, that their condition don't have to be good, because a fight in RL doesn't take long. Which is true.

BUT in a RL situation you will almost never fight against one opponent. Atleast two opponents (it's not that a thug will say." Ah there is someone walking with his gf. Let's take him one a one." Reality is this. 'ah let's take rob that guy and harras his gf, I will try to distract him and you hit him from behind. " And this are only two opponents.

It will go fast, they will try to surround you which is easly doable with just two opponents.

agreed. Not only that, but I think alot of people misunderstand adrenaline - adrenaline does make you stronger - but it also saps all of you energy VERY fast. even for a short duration, you will tire quickly.

While other sport MA have a better condtion than other MA, they "maybe" fight different. You can't deny that MT/KK/Taekwando/boxing works like this. Try to get inside the defence/find an opening/ hit a couple of times, retreat a bit.. tries to seek again for an opening...

that's not quite how it works with boxing and thai boxing. I WANT to take you out as fast as possible. The problem is that you want to do the same to me. If you are less skilled than me, then I will drop you, no waiting for openings, no nothing. But when skill levels are equal, the game changes - this is where more strategy comes into play.

Now about ground arts. It is good if you know some groundfighting, it is only USEFULL when you fight against 1 opponent.

Like I said in RL situations, you are extremly lucky if you are fighting 1 opponent which is rare. So if you are fighting two opponents and you get to the ground with one opponent the other would just kick your head to pudding.

disagree. people who don't grapple generally tend to think this way.

1. the grappler is also adept at standing grappling - the clinch. Ideally, I want to take you down, while I remain standing. BUT

2. that may not happen. If it does, and I go to the ground, knowing about the ground will make me better able to get up to my feet more efficiently than someone who knows nothing of ground work. Using your example, two on one, I know nothing of ground work and I go down. While I am wrestling to get up, I get stomped.

Or, guy 1 and I are on the ground. I bring him into my guard and control him, holding him close and keeping my head tucked. He is now acting as a shield between me and his buddy. when the opportunity presents itself, I sweep him out of my guard and quickly get back to my feet.

Or, perhaps I am able to shrimp out of whatever position he has me in quickly enough to get to my feet safely before his buddy gets to me.

I am rambling:)

nah, it was a good post!

[mai tai]

seven 9 times out of ten i agree with you this time is no different.

as far as muay tai working the other styles. i would have to agree.

we can talk forever about which is better. but its all talk.the mixed martial arts arena was suppose to settle this.

and to me it did.

you see mostly muay tai style striking and bbj grappleing and wrestling.

the crazy spinning kicks and deep stances have goon the way of the dinasuar. yes some of the fighters have different backgrounds but they all use these above mentioned techniques.

if kung fu and akidto were better dont you think they would be in it.

everyone likes to win and i doubt the other practitoners hate money.