What martial art is good against one who knows martial arts

[Hachidan]

Everyone should know some grappling. However, this more or less ties the fighter up with one opponent which is to be avoided, if possible, in combat training. It is better to train for multi opponents, say ten or more, at all times. Being grabbed is something that I like to avoid. I will grab for the sake of ripping, wrenching, breaking, mauling, or to deliver a related technique. However, this last for a second or a fraction of one. I am not "bound" to the opponent nor am I struggeling against resistence. My intention is to remain a free agent in order to conduct myself against many attackers. Grappeling has its place one on one, as a sport, or if you feel that you can control the opponent. It is best to know it but to avoid situations where such engagement becomes unavoidable. If possible, learn how not to get grabbed and don't go down to the floor unless you are forced to. If you do go down ( and we all do sometimes ) strive to get up and resume activity as a stand up fighter.

Focus, for me, is always training for combat situations in which there are multiple, talented, and most probably armed multiple opponents who want to kill me. Sensei gave me this model and it has always served me well, both in the study hall and on the street.

[SubGrappler]

Everyone should know some grappling. However, this more or less ties the fighter up with one opponent which is to be avoided, if possible, in combat training. It is better to train for multi opponents, say ten or more, at all times. Being grabbed is something that I like to avoid. I will grab for the sake of ripping, wrenching, breaking, mauling, or to deliver a related technique. However, this last for a second or a fraction of one. I am not "bound" to the opponent nor am I struggeling against resistence. My intention is to remain a free agent in order to conduct myself against many attackers. Grappeling has its place one on one, as a sport, or if you feel that you can control the opponent. It is best to know it but to avoid situations where such engagement becomes unavoidable. If possible, learn how not to get grabbed and don't go down to the floor unless you are forced to. If you do go down ( and we all do sometimes ) strive to get up and resume activity as a stand up fighter.

Focus, for me, is always training for combat situations in which there are multiple, talented, and most probably armed multiple opponents who want to kill me. Sensei gave me this model and it has always served me well, both in the study hall and on the street.

Ten??

[ravenzoom]

Really does seem exagerated. I'm no expert in martial arts, but I can't imagine any martial artist stopping ten guys trying to jump him at the same time (I could be wrong).

[Sam]

no no u missed the or more part.....

sorry but if there are multiple talented armed opponents [3 or more would suffice] trying to kill you.... they're probably going to succeed....

[Hachidan]

If you believe that you cannot do something then you are likely not to be able to. The converse is true. I have almost 40 years of training directed towards non violence and in surgically taking out multiple opponents if violence is unavoidable. My trouble avoiding and people handling skills are such that I have never had to test my abilities on the street although my neighborhood and job both expose me to the most dangerous type of people, 24/7. I mean that I've never had to deal with more than six people on the street at one time. In the labratory of the dojo...I have played with what I have gotten with most satisfactory results. However, the dojo is not the real deal. When I take on the entire class at one time, they are not really tring to kill me. Further, it is my responsibility to master students without debilitating them. This is not so easy because I am exercising the type of control that does not permit me to break joints, damage internally, blind the opponent/s, rip faces, crush genitals, destroy the jugular, or to really land pin point nerve shots. This allows the students to keep coming back at you. This is something tat I would not willingly permit on the street. Who goes down stays down!

If you believe that you can do something the possibility exists. If you have trained for decades specifically with a goal in mind, the chances of achieving that goal should be heightened by aquired abilities towards its accomplishment. Don't let the idea of ten worthy opponents limit the implications of training well for worst scenerio situations. Ten is the minimum. The model by which I was instructed was " ten or more."

To the opened mind nothing is impossible. Even non violence. The reflective mind can achieve incredible things, both by doing and not doing.

Results in anything need to be sought through focus, effort, and tenacity. Thinking about it will not suffice.

I'm not saying that believing that you can do multiple opponents, in and of itself, will allow you to. However, it opens the door. If you back this up with lots of the right type of training you should be able to handle multiple opponents, or at least many of them before they wipe you out.

Peace and Power!!!

[SubGrappler]

Well its also been said focus on probability rather than possibilty. Probability is you'll be in a one on one fight.

Possibilities are endless. While everything may be possible to the open mind, there comes a time when your mind conflicts with reality.

[Hachidan]

Part of my Samurai training is to constantly use the imagination to prepare for the worst. Then, and only then, might one be prepared for it.

Why imagine a best case scenario ( one on one ) when it is much more viable to imagine a worst case ( many on one.) ? The latter approach will better prepare you for the more challenging possibility and should give you some edge if it is a one on one situation. The logic is that if you have trained against many superior fighters that doing so should have improved your chances with an individual superior fighter.

Also, by what authority do you maintain that it is more "probable," and, therefor, more "real" that a confrontation is most likely to be one on one.

This presumption is not true just because you stated it as if it were. State the proof, statistically or otherwise.

According to the newspapers in my town, Trenton, N.J., it seems like the preponderence of the almost daily incidents involve multiple assailents. It is not safe to presume that this will not be so.

It is not safe to presume that you can beat any one street fighter just because you have been trained.

It is not safe to believe that you can controll a single opponent.

It can happen here!

It can happen to you!

If an individual presumes that he or she cannot possibly prevail over three armed opponents then the mind has been self defeated. Such a mind is not suited to combat situations, even in a one to one situation.

Neither should that person presume that they can beat three such fighters.Presume nothing or presume only the worst and you will probably do better. For instance, don't presume that any fighter on the street is merely going to beat you. Presume that they will kill you or at least impair you for life.

Read the Trenton newspapers!

[SubGrappler]

Why imagine a best case scenario ( one on one ) when it is much more viable to imagine a worst case ( many on one.) ? The latter approach will better prepare you for the more challenging possibility and should give you some edge if it is a one on one situation. The logic is that if you have trained against many superior fighters that doing so should have improved your chances with an individual superior fighter.

You're absolutely right- Logic would have it that if you can defeat 10, than 1 should be a piece of cake.... right? If this were the case, you would be able to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that you can defeat multiple opponents, correct? If thats the case, you realize you could win thousands, if not millions, of dollars fighting in the UFC and Pride organizations.

Also, by what authority do you maintain that it is more "probable," and, therefor, more "real" that a confrontation is most likely to be one on one.

This presumption is not true just because you stated it as if it were. State the proof, statistically or otherwise.

Fair enough, I'll get around to it when Im not feeling as lazy. The papers are not a viable source either, because it only covers the most violent of the encounters. No one cares about the bar fight that joey got involved in last week- its not in the papers, but it doesnt mean it didnt happen. Almost every occurance I see at the bar involves 1 patron fighting 1 other.

It is not safe to believe that you can controll a single opponent.

Im not assuming- I know I have the capability because I've done it many times before. But, if its not safe to believe that you can control a single opponent, wouldnt it then be disastrous to believe you could control 10?

[Hachidan]

SubGrappler-Around here the papers report all of the bad news. There were three assaults reported in one paper Saturday. All three involved more than one assailant.

I don't know who UFC and Pride are. Please educate me. Whoever they are, I am not a prize fighter. I am focusing on the idea of fighting for my life, to the death if need be, mine or theirs. Are UFC and Pride into this?

Finally, your point was rationally well taken, but...I was correctly trained to respect all opponents as potentially deadly. Regardless of my abilities. I do not presume that I can take any single fighter. I don't care if it is an old lady. This "respect" gives me an edge with one or more opponents. It gives me a type of chance that I wouldn't have without it. It helps me to pay a lot of attention and to do the right things.

I don't know what's going on in the bars that you go to. People kill each other around here. I no longer go to bars and I no longer drink. I cannot maintain my martial prowess or avoid trouble if I set myself up.

Please take a look at my mother style, the one in which I earned my first black belt, Isshinryu. We always focus on multiple opponents. All of our techniques and katas are so directed.

Authenticated Isshinryu is the real deal. It is a pure combat style and it does not disguise that fact. Every move in it is meaningfull in a devastating sort of way. It is real karate.

As for what I believe I can or cannot do...forget it! I do. Belief is limited by its own definitions. It is based on the "I." In combat, "I " is, after a certain point, in the way. With "I" possibilities or limited. Without the ego in the way impossible things become not so impossible.

Talk is cheap. People say all sorts of things that have no real substance. Just because a fighter has won every encounter for decades does not mean that he or she will do so the next time.

In Ishinryu training the type of fighting and baseline performance that I am suggesting is the common goal, even in cases where the ability is not fully realized. I venture that you will find this to be so throughout the real Isshinryu community worldwide.

Speak to you soon. Peace and Power

[Sam]

I still hold the fact that i MASSIVELY doubt the ability ot hold of 10 trained armed attackers attempting to kill you.... or evne 3 like i said.... simply statistically..... i dont need actual proof of examples.... 3 people with weapons... 1 man unarmed.... just the ability of the 3 people to attac you simultaneously.... and sa you said controlling one person may be difficult [otherwise you could assume you could do it] but 3 simlutaneous armed skilled attackers.....

Also in this case thinking whether its possible has nothing to do with it..... although it may be beneficial to believe in yourself in a situation where you have a chacne of coming out alive, i seriously disbelieve it would make a noticable differnce.

Im not attacking you personally, just the point that a single person could hold off ten attackers.... as you say you've never had cause to try this in the real world only in Dojo simulations, so to profess that a rw example of this is possible is a rather too large leap of logic / faith for me to take.....