Grappling in Karate

[pineapple]

Has anyone learned grappling in a traditional karate school?

 

If so, what techniques were taught?

[jarrettmeyer]

We have throws, standing work, and ground grappling at my Goju Ryu classes. The throws are quite diverse: arm throws, hip throws, and sweeps. The groundwork includes both people on the ground and one person on the ground (either you or your opponent).

[Kieran-Lilith]

Yeah, but mine's an integrated school too. I think we have our own throws, though. Right now we're in a judo section, so it's a lot of throwing and such, meaning you best know how to breakfall. And how to stay out of Sensei's reach if you grapple with him.

[Shorin Ryuu]

As in all my posts, this is indicative of systems, not individual dojo.

 

Hmm, it would be quite extensive to list all the specific techniques we learn. I really hope this doesn't sound like a cop-out answer. But our training really does focus more upon the principles as opposed to comprehensive lists of specific techniques.

 

Suffice it to say that most techniques end up in a throw/takedown while maintaining a lock of sorts or otherwise controlling the opponent. This includes lots of joint and muscle manipulation as well as pressure point manipulation. Thus wrist, elbow and shoulder manipulation are prevalent, as arms are a good target. Controlling the neck is also a big theme in many of the techniques. The kicking and leg techniques are lower in order to disrupt the balance of the opponent's foundation.

 

Okinawans trained heavily in gripping exercises, as many techniques are supplemented in their effectiveness by literally grabbing the opponents flesh (muscle, skin, connective tissue, etc.) and incorporating that into various holds, locks and throws. Again, most throws would be performed after the opponent is incapacitated (unconscious, dead, etc.) Otherwise, the techniques can be more considered takedowns as Okinawans like to maintain continual contact with their opponent.

 

I hope this mention of gripping and otherwise tearing or hurting the opponent in this manner will not lead you to believe it is all "hard" per se. In fact, much of Okinawan karate is very soft, even in techniques where these things occur.

 

There is less of a tendency to go down with the opponent, as fighting on the ground was viewed as dangerous (especially with multiple opponents who may or may not have had weapons). All the same, as the emphasis is on principles rather than specific techniques, they can be easily adapted to ground fighting. I've never had a problem doing that (against wrestlers, judoka, etc.). In fact, the current head of my style for North America used to be on the Marine Corps judo team (he would often get disqualified for cheating...but he never lost). All the same, the grappling emphasis isn't due to him, but the centuries old tradition of grappling in Okinawan karate.

 

In fact, I believe traditional Okinawan karate to be centered heavily around the takedown. The strikes are good, and if you can end a fight with just those, it is all well and good (and many of the old masters did). However, a critical analysis of the kata will demonstrate the proliferation of grappling techniques.

 

If anything, Okinawan karate really is a mixture of striking and grappling. This wide spectrum is one of the main reasons why I am a great advocate of it.

 

The sad fact of it is, however, that there are many karate dojo out there which I have felt have lost a good deal of their original heritage of grappling. While many of these tend to be the more Japanese styles, there are Okinawan styles that are guilty of this as well.

 

Anyway, if you wish me to be more specific, please ask.

[cross]

We learn grappling at our school also. Basically all the techniques are taken out of the kata we do and usually geared towards either maintaining control of the opponent with a potential to attack them with other techniques (strikes with your free hand/leg) or simply to hurt them badly.

[Omega14]

It depends on what the definition of "traditional" karate is. Looking at shotokan, the JKA placed emphasis primarily on strikes. However, this is not to say that Shotokan does not contain any "grippling techniques", they are usually ignored. The applications for most Katas involve grippling techniques (there are a lot of take downs and arm locks). For sure, to be holistic, an MA will need to incorporate grippling techniques with its strking techniques program.

[kotegashiNeo]

Shoron ryu I agree with every word you just said

[pineapple]

Shorin Ryuu:

Okinawans trained heavily in gripping exercises, as many techniques are supplemented in their effectiveness by literally grabbing the opponents flesh (muscle, skin, connective tissue, etc.) and incorporating that into various holds, locks and throws.

 

I would like to learn more about this. Know of any good instructional material? Books, tapes, dvds??

[G95champ]

Yes

 

Shotokan the Tekki Kata series works the guard.

[P.A.L]

for anyone interested in Okinawan grappling I suggest this book

 

"Okinawan Karate the secret art of Tuite" by Javier Martinez.He explains in summary how Shaolin Chin Na and Aiki jutsu incorporated in Okinawan Karate as he calls it Tuite, then he proceeds to katas, Seisan (can be applied to both version of NahaTe and ShuriTe I coulddn’t realize what version exactly), Seiunchin, Naihanchi(Shodan),Wansu,Chinto(I think it is Tomari-chinto),Kusanku( I think he talks about Chatan Yara Kusanku)

 

I didn’t like it at first but later I spent more time on it and got lots of useful information.

 

one thing I ‘d like to mention is Okinawan grappling techniques are incorporated with blockin/striking( refer you to the post by Shorin Ryuu) part of it ,you normally won’t try to use it directly against an aware opponent, secondly it needs a long time practice since most of techniques are involved with effective grabbing of pressure points/joints/tissues /ect..