Erase Styles

[Emei89]

tai chi is done slow to begin with only to ensure that you are doing it properly.

 

after you re familiar with it, you don't concerntrate on anything.

 

it isn't about keeping a clear mind,

 

actually thats exectly what tai chi is about. clearing the mind. my school DOES tai chi and even when the master practices she does it slow. They don't need to practice it fast becuase doing it slow helps your body memorize it. Then when you do it fast it's a piece of cake.

[1kickKO]

Just a word if I may about katas/forms...The Chinese army still to this day teaches a kata in our system called "fu ku gata ichi". This kata is over 500 years old, and is still in use to this day. One of the noticeables int his kata is that you hit all four walls and corners, symbolizing all 8 points on a compass. This is to instill your direction, and balance. They used it to walk in straight lines and help them to know their way. Another thing on a bo kata...one of the uses the Chinese army still uses today for wilderness training is this...stand in a zenkutsu dachi (forward leg block stance), now take a bo and put it up straight. It should hit the front of your foot, along with your knee, and hit the middle of your knuckles. These should all be in a straight line and created a nice, straight line for them to build forts and shelters...just a tad bit of interesting info I thought I'd share with ya guys.

[Emei89]

"fu ku gata ichi".

 

 

 

even though i'm sure it's true thats probably not what it's called becuase thats japanese.

[1kickKO]

Whoops, sorry I meant Japanese Army, not Chinese..sorry..haha I guess that would make a big difference.

[Shorin Ryuu]

Edit: The post above mine was edited, so this one probably won't make sense anymore. Original assertion that the kata isn't 500 years ago still stands, as I believe the "masters of old" didn't bother with really really basic kata. Most of these (especially of the Fukyuu/kihon variety) were introduced for testing purposes (which they didn't do) or for teaching school children (which they didn't do till the early 1900s).

 

I'm sorry to say this, but I'm pretty sure "Fukyuugata Dai Ichi" or any variation thereof is not 500 years old. Many styles all have their version of Fukyuugata, some with shared lineages, others not. Usually the pattern is so simple, it wouldn't even be surprising if it somehow developed in two places in total isolation from eachother.

 

I don't mean to call you out on this, but what is your source of information for this? It just sounds a little wierd.

 

At any rate, karate isn't Japanese, so they wouldn't have picked this kata from the Japanese. What's more, they fought the Chinese during the end of the 16th century in Korea, before Japan had any real connection with Okinawa anyway. After the death of Hideyoshi Toyotomi and the beginning of the Tokugawa Bakufu, the Japanese entered a period of sakoku (isolation) that did not involve any external fighting and after solidification, relatively very few internal fighting as well. This lasted officially until 1868, at which point the Meiji Restoration happened. I'll skip over some history, but it wasn't until the around the first quarter of the 20th century that karate was really a part of Japanese military training, as the Japanese were impressed by the physique of Okinawan recruits (Okinawa finally being formally annexed in the late 1800s by Japan after almost three centuries of quasi-rule by the Japanese and quasi-suzerainty by the Chinese).

 

The point of this long history lesson is that I don't see how what you say makes sense. It couldn't have been a real karate kata that old, and definately not of Japanese origin if it was. Furthermore, if it was in the Chinese army training (which seems suspect, but whatever), it would only have to have happened in recent times. I've not the time nor the inclination to deal with changes in Chinese political and military structure over the past 150 years, but suffice it to say, there was a lot of changes.

 

If I'm wrong in my assumptions, please tell me.

Edited January 25, 2005 by Shorin Ryuu

[1kickKO]

No problem, I love hearin' about historical events of karate. But the info is from my soke, who trained in Okinawa for quite a few years, and developed his own style from it..called Ko Sutemi Seiei Kan Karate and jujitsu. But it originally came form Okinawa (apparently I always get those two mixed up, although I do know that Okinawa is not a part of Japan). Fkukyuugata ichi might be a totally different form of the kata, I don't know, but two similar sounds and spelling (eg. fukyuugataichi and fu ku gata ichi) might be two different things, ya never know. Thanks for sharing the info though.

[Shorin Ryuu]

No problem, I love hearin' about historical events of karate. But the info is from my soke, who trained in Okinawa for quite a few years, and developed his own style from it..called Ko Sutemi Seiei Kan Karate and jujitsu. But it originally came form Okinawa (apparently I always get those two mixed up, although I do know that Okinawa is not a part of Japan). Fkukyuugata ichi might be a totally different form of the kata, I don't know, but two similar sounds and spelling (eg. fukyuugataichi and fu ku gata ichi) might be two different things, ya never know. Thanks for sharing the info though.

 

Well, I've certainly managed to hijack this thread. But to clarify, Okinawa is a part of Japan. It was just quite culturally distinct (this is lessening as time progresses) and had more Chinese than Japanese culture (which is a tricky thing to say, as a lot of Japanese culture was influenced by Chinese culture, but with a lot of Japanese flavor

[1kickKO]

Ya know what..ya have some good points, I'll ask Sensei about this and see what his takes on it are, and bring back the info to ya.

[Shorin Ryuu]

Sure. I'm also curious as to what style Soke Madden trained in. Some sites from a simple google search indicate the kata to be a mix mostly of Shotokan kata (with the Japanese names) and some of the Okinawan names and Okinawan kata.

 

Just curious, trying to see where he came from. So you actually get to train with him then? That must be nice.

[1kickKO]

Yes it's extremely nice, he is a nice person and extremely smart in the MA aspects. You can check out a few websites on our system... our main website is this akjuteamamerica.com , and akju.tripod.com.