The way of the Ninja.

[Taku-Shimazu]

so where's all that fued you talk about between samurai and ninja?

 

I'm not saying that all Ninja, by code of conduct had to hate samurai, i'm saying there were alot of Ninja who worked for samurai lords to kill powerful generals who were feared on the battlefield and to steal strategies. (You claim so much but you refer to the valued work of the Ninja as mischief!)

 

But when I said they hated samurai i'm was refering to the clans who didn't work for the Daimyos and often tryed to lure other warlords onto their enemies to keep them away from them, the solitary schools who used to have few Ninja who often lived in forest areas of mountain ranges in poor conditions, who would like to meet samurai so that they could replace their brittle, hand crafted, sword with a fine samurai blade.

 

And... from the samurai point of view I meant the samurai who strictly followed their code of honour who thought that people entering someones house without bowing and taking off your shoes was rude and maybe worth killing for, especially not killing them while they were asleep like Ninja did,(Taking away their honourable death on the battlefield, dying by their lord.)

 

And also, (as I noted earlier) The Samurai would live by the sword and they believed that "A mans soul is his sword" and so the idea that someone would steal your soul would not be good to say the very least, (This is where the 'Oni Ninja' or 'Demon Ninja' come from who wore masks depicting various 'scary faces' to scare the enemy). And as the Ninja we famous for mastering every weapon they came across the samurai feared them for this.

 

So does that clear up any misunderstanding?

[ovine king]

right..... is it me or are you now changing what you say to fit in with something that sounds a lot like what i said originally?

 

i sued the word 'mischief' because in a lot of instances that's what it was.

 

setting fire inside an enemy camp is mischief.

 

stirring trouble within enemy camp is mischief.

 

causing unrest within the enemy camp is mischief.

 

at the same time it is part of war strategy

 

but

 

it is mischief.

 

no?

 

this is going to be the last post from me about this.

 

it's quite clear to me that you don't know much about this.

 

(chirst almighty did you actually say 'demon/oni ninja'?)

 

the things i've mentioned i can provide references for.

 

i omitted the use of actual names so that you can't google the things i type so easily.

 

can you give references for the things you say?

 

i.e live in forests and steal swords from samurai who walk by....

 

(hmm, since when did ninja use samurai swords?)

 

just so you know, japan isn't a very flat country.

 

not many people at that time period didn't live in hills/mountains/forests.

[kzshin]

sigh, The buttom line is they are different, if they are the same, why don't they just called all of them Samurai, or Ninja.

 

If you write samurai in Kanji, it means service person, as men in service, like military man.

 

if you write ninga in kanji it means "person who holds within." or "Perseverance/Endurance"

 

just by the title, it shows that they are very very different.

 

and another fact is, ususally ninja hide their ninja identity, most ninja won't let others know that they are ninja, that's why alot of time they covered their face.

 

as samurai, they are proud, so they let everyone knows who they are. They dont usually covered their face.

 

 

just so you know, japan isn't a very flat country.

 

not many people at that time period didn't live in hills/mountains/forests.

 

Historical records state that certain ninjas were from the Iga/Koga (modern Mie/Omi) region.

[Hengest]

sigh, The buttom line is they are different, if they are the same, why don't they just called all of them Samurai, or Ninja.

 

If you write samurai in Kanji, it means service person, as men in service, like military man.

 

if you write ninga in kanji it means "person who holds within." or "Perseverance/Endurance"

 

just by the title, it shows that they are very very different.

 

The meaning of "bushi", i.e. warrior, is quite different from that of "samurai". Does that mean they are seperate from samurai? Of course not.

 

Apply the same thing in English: "professional soldier" vs. "guerilla fighter". Do they mean different things? Absolutely. Can one be both at the same time? Absolutely.

 

Your argument holds no water whatsoever.

and another fact is, ususally ninja hide their ninja identity, most ninja won't let others know that they are ninja, that's why alot of time they covered their face.

 

as samurai, they are proud, so they let everyone knows who they are. They dont usually covered their face.

 

For a start, the whole "ninja weaing masks" thing is probably fantasy anyway. It likely stems from the portrayal of ninja in kabuki theatre. Think about it. If I want to skulk about unnoticed in enemy territory am I going to wear black from head-to-toe or am I going to wear the uniform of the enemy's troops or perhaps the clothes of a merchant or serf that would be in the camp anyway?

 

Even if the ninja costume is historically accurate, it would have had nothing to do with pride.

 

I think it's time some people around these here parts put down the Ashida Kim books, switched off the Sho Kosugi movies, and started doing some proper research.

[Taku-Shimazu]

ovine king,

 

Alot of your questions can easily be answered but you would probably find some way to ask more, of course I know Japan is covered in hills? you patronising me doesn't make your argument true.

 

I have a source yes, I have many sources so here take this one:

 

https://www.entertheninja.com

 

I know it may seem like some guys idea of a joke but I have researched it and its all truth, except for one thing, it is:

 

Rin Pyo Toh Sha Kai Chin Retsu Zai Zen, but the site states:

 

Rin Hei Toh Sha Kai Shin Retsu Zai Zen.

 

I hope this will calm you.

[Hengest]

I know it may seem like some guys idea of a joke but I have researched it and its all truth, except for one thing, it is:

 

Rin Pyo Toh Sha Kai Chin Retsu Zai Zen, but the site states:

 

Rin Hei Toh Sha Kai Shin Retsu Zai Zen.

 

What sources did you use to confirm the info at that link?

[Taku-Shimazu]

I'm sorry could you re-phrase that it probably makes perfect sense but I miss read it.

 

Please elaborate.

[kzshin]

The meaning of "bushi", i.e. warrior, is quite different from that of "samurai". Does that mean they are seperate from samurai? Of course not.

 

Bushi can be used on samurai, ronin, and others who study martial arts, it's acutally a broader term.

 

Doctor and nurse are both medical practitioners, but are they different? YES.

 

Air borne rangers and Navy Seal are both soldiers, but are they different?? YES.

 

Your argument holds no water whatsoever.

For a start, the whole "ninja weaing masks" thing is probably fantasy anyway. It likely stems from the portrayal of ninja in kabuki theatre. Think about it. If I want to skulk about unnoticed in enemy territory am I going to wear black from head-to-toe or am I going to wear the uniform of the enemy's troops or perhaps the clothes of a merchant or serf that would be in the camp anyway?

 

First of all, that's not the fantasy, Since you are in Japan now, you can to iga villagle where they have ninja museum there and see what their custom is like.

 

regarding skulk unnoticed, well, that depend what kind situation it is. if you want to walk around town or enemy camps, of course you don't want to wear black from head to toe. However, there are many occasion, especially during the night where you want to wear all black, cuz the you want to get as less expose as possible, and black work the best in the night. or at least covered your face so no other seeing you. (Even today, our soliders wear black head to toe with face covered when doing some special missions in the night.)

 

again, the example you are giving is "in certain occasion," which is really pointless in a arguement. However, we do know in the past, Ninja don't walk around and show other they are ninjas at least not like samurai, and that's the buttom line. This along, show that ninja and samurai are different.

 

again, if they are the same why there are two terms

think it's time some people around these here parts put down the Ashida Kim books, switched off the Sho Kosugi movies, and started doing some proper research.

 

I duuno who Ashida kim is nor I have seen Sho Kosugi's movies. Acutally all the stuff I mentioned, were very very basic, and not hard to find on the internet. Someone really need to do some search.

[Hengest]

Your argument holds no water whatsoever.

 

Actually it holds about as much water as the Titanic. You've just missed the point completely. I know what "bushi" means, I speak, read and write Japanese. And you wouldn't use it to describe a martial artist.

First of all, that's not the fantasy, Since you are in Japan now, you can to iga villagle where they have ninja museum there and see what their custom is like.

 

The Iga village is a tourist attraction and nothing more. It is not a centre of serious academic research. My wife went and said it was the best laugh she's had in years.

[Hengest]

I'm sorry could you re-phrase that it probably makes perfect sense but I miss read it.

 

Please elaborate.

 

What I mean is, how do you know that site is true? What books or other sources did you use to confirm what it says?