The way of the Ninja.

[Hengest]

Well said ovine king. It's about time all these myths about ninja and ninjutsu were put to rest. Unfortunately, it seems informed people such as yourself are in the minority.

[Taku-Shimazu]

"Jbone1"

 

You wanted to know:

 

Where did you train?

 

I learn Karate in the Central Dojo, England. I learnt Tai Chi from my Uncle.

 

Where are you from?

 

I am genetically from Japan, but I live in England.

 

What fighting systems or styles do you know?

 

I know Karate, Tai Chi, Use of Tonfa (With Karate), And I am currently studying Ninjitsu and Tai chi chuan from my uncle.

 

 

 

Where Ninjas Samurai's first?

 

No they either worked for them as assasins or spies(Major Ninja clans), or they hated them for being the 'top of the people chain' and they counted the days until the age of the Ninja (These were usually single Ninja or solitary schools).

 

Can any Martial Artist be someone like a Ninja if they are stealthy?

 

With little techniques yes but to be a lethal Ninja that is never seen and never heard you have to start young and grow up with it otherwise it takes years.

 

What things to Ninjas specialize in that's different than other Arts?

 

Stealing and unecessary murdering, They are the main two which made them so different as, at that time, all Japanese MA kept to a strict code of Honour.

 

How many years have you trained?

 

As a ninja 7 months, other arts 14 years.

[ovine king]

"Stealing and unecessary murdering, They are the main two which made them so different as, at that time, all Japanese MA kept to a strict code of Honour."

 

nope.

 

totally wrong.

 

samurai were not known to be nice people.

 

in fact, they were known for raping and pillaging the small villages that surrounded their 'base'.

 

the code of honour that you mention, the budo, was a system that was imposed onto the samurai class to assert some sort of control over them.

 

the difference between the ninja arts and the other arts is that the ninja arts had elements specific to their job

 

eg. how to climb onto a meiji era traditional japanese palace roof.

 

shooting arrows from that little bow whilst crouced in akward positions in odd places.

 

"No they either worked for them as assasins or spies(Major Ninja clans), or they hated them for being the 'top of the people chain' and they counted the days until the age of the Ninja (These were usually single Ninja or solitary schools)."

 

this is supposed to make sense?

 

samurai did not hate ninja.

 

at the later times when more of a gap developed between the two, their respective jobs were different.

 

why would they hate each other?

 

because samurai had 'power'?

 

what power?

 

they had a higher social class (not the same as power) but this was slowly being eaten away anyway?

 

age of the ninja?

 

what trash is this?

 

even if they took command somehow, it would still be meaningless because command does not equal high social status,

 

not to mention that as i said, people of the samurai class could be ninja.

 

spies?

 

anyone could've been employed to do work as spies.

 

all it takes is a little intimidation.

 

how about you pick up a few history books instead of comic books....

[Jbone1]

Wow, great post and I think some folks look too keen on movies..

 

I need to research more myself.

[kzshin]

samurai were not known to be nice people.

 

in fact, they were known for raping and pillaging the small villages that surrounded their 'base'.

 

NO, Samurai weren't suppose to raping nad pillaging, yes, it did happend, but it shouldn't be, just like COPs shoudldn't beat up innocent peopl, but it happened. Samuari are like Knights in western civilization, protect weak, served the lord......etc.

No they either worked for them as assasins or spies(Major Ninja clans), or they hated them for being the 'top of the people chain' and they counted the days until the age of the Ninja (These were usually single Ninja or solitary schools)."

 

this is supposed to make sense?

 

Actually this is a well known fact, and it did happend.

 

 

what power?

 

they had a higher social class (not the same as power) but this was slowly being eaten away anyway?

 

age of the ninja?

 

It was being eaten away only around Meji Restoration period and after, if you look pre Meji Restoration Era, Samurai did have hight social class, and most ninja were actually peasant.

 

hmmmm.....I think someone else need to learn Japanese history also the way of Samurai, and also why Ninja are originally from that certain region. If you really read these history, it's not hard to noticed that all of source tell you that Ninja and Samurai are really and supposely different, However, as I mentioned on earlier post there are exceptions, especiall in later of history, but we are talking about general defination here.

[Treebranch]

Ninja had bad apples just like Samurai, but since the Samurai mostly wrote the history the Ninja have been portrayed as "bad". Ronin did similar jobs to that of the Ninja and were very good at it. Ninja to my understanding in the provinces of Iga and Koga were not part of the Shoguns domain. They were in the mountains where Ronin and Bandits would often flee from the law. They created certain methods of fighting in order to survive and rarely killed for no reason, there was always a real motivation. They did not want to war against the Samurai and vice versa. Nobody really knows if some Samurai were Ninja or if some Ninja were Samurai. Hattori Hanzo (not the guy from Kill Bill) but the real historical figure was from Iga and recieved Samurai status and was a Martial Arts instructor for one of the Daimyos. I don't know which one, I would have to look it up. If you want to learn a little about the philosophies of the Ninja you should read some of Soke Hatsumi's books.

 

There is more evidence and historical accuracy to the fact that many Samurai did lots of horrible things and Ninja got the bad wrap. Also because of the Ninjas way of fight and flee techniques they were very scary to Samurai and people under the rule of the Samurai. They often used weapons and techniques that the Samurai were unfamiliar with. The way the moved and the way they faught was unorthodox to the Samurai, and that's exactly why they faught that way. The weapons they used were basically altered farming tools and short swords in long scabbards. They were able to draw the short sword faster and at close ranges. They could fight very effectively and their Art was not the art of assasination. The whole "Trained Assassins" thing is silly. The Samurai had assassins as well. The definition of Ninja is not Assassin. Remember the whole Bushido thing came in peace time, so before that it was very different. Samurai were proud people and would kill you or challenge you if you looked at them wrong. Ninja clans wanted to bring as little attention to themselves as possible. You knew who was Samurai and they made sure you knew it. You never knew who was Ninja. It's kind of hard to write an accurate history about people who don't want you to know about them.

[ovine king]

let's not forget that some of the major schools of 'ninja' were established by samurai....

[Taku-Shimazu]

kzshin,

 

Thanks for backing me up on that, I know that its right!

 

I think that guy has been getting confused reading to many books that oppose true history.

[ovine king]

....ninja weren't exclusively spies and assasins.

 

lets not forget that assainations and deceptions were common acts of loyalty; it was an honourable thing to kill the enemies of your lord.

 

why would an honourable samurai get a 'ninja' (especially if they didn't like them) to kill an enemy, thus removing some of the honour of the act?

 

yes ninja did kill and do spy work but one of their greatest skills (that doesn't film well ) was war strategy.

 

(some say it was based heavily on Sun Tzu coutesy of Hattori and his little episode of taking up the wrong side...)

 

in the beginning, they were not much more than 'punks' who would steal, rob and fight and kill.

 

these were the original 'specialist' people (shinobi-no mono: military spy) that were hired to do spy work (after Onin period).

 

this is the 'men from yiga' and 'men from koga' (again thanks to Hattori) that were especially good at it, that the other guy mentioned.

 

there are also records of low level samurai (gasp! samurai were ninja?),

 

don't forget, samurai wasn't just a single social group - there were differentiations within the group as well, were recruited as shinobi.

 

going back to the war strategy thing.

 

often groups were employed to penetrate/infiltrate into enemy camps.

 

here, they would generally cause mischief, set a fire here, kill a person there and found out about plans and weaknesses.

 

(no solitary james bond types working here....)

 

then where possible, they would try to sabotage or misdirect the enemies during their actions.

 

famously, there is the story of 'killing with someone else' knife'.

 

in most instances, the so called secret ninja clans were not much more than fuedal families that specialised in war/espionage (mainly goshi - low level samurai) that had no lord, hence being able to work for anyone who requested them.

 

and this is not even going on about the religious aspects.....

 

(yamabushi and shugendo etc etc)

 

or even mentioning that the oldest recorded school of ninjutsu was named in honour of a samurai general.

 

(so where's all that fued you talk about between samurai and ninja?)

[Jbone1]

This is a lesson in itself in this thread keep it up guys.