Arnis versus fencing

[Zauriel]

500 years ago, an arnis practitioner named Lapu-Lapu was said to have killed an explorer named Ferdinand Magellan, who was a fencer, in a battle.

 

So do you think an arnis practitioner can defeat a fencer?

[yamesu]

it would be a hard call, but yes, definantly.

 

hehehe.....when i first read the title for this thread i thought it said;

 

arnis vs. fence

 

hehehe.

[bart]

Hey There,

 

Until recently I thought the same thing, that Lapulapu personally killed Magellan. On a whim, I decided to seek out the writings of Pigafetta. I found a copy of the original online in Italian, which is the language that Pigafetta wrote his account in. His is the only recorded written historical account of the death of Magellan.

 

According to his account Magellan and his men were met with arrows and spears as Lapulapu's fighters advanced from the beach to fight Magellan in the shallow water in the bay. Magellan's men were also hit with rocks and mudclods in large numbers. When Lapulapu's men reached Magellan's they began to fight but Lapulapu's people shot arrows, threw rocks, and poked spears at the Spanish fighters' un armored legs. Several men fell. Lapulapu's men recognized him as the leader of the Spaniards and redirected their attacks to him. Magellan was struck by a spear in the leg and fell down in the water. He went to reach for his sword when he was hit by a volley of arrows. He looked back at Pigafetta and the now retreating Spaniards. Then one of Lapulapu's men hit the already downed and drowning Magellan with a "sword like a large scimitar" in the leg and Lapulapu's men mobbed on him. They surrounded him and stuck him and struck him until he was dead.

 

I think that any fencer might have a little trouble dealing with arrows, rocks, and thrown spears while fighting in water against multiple opponents. So this might not be the best gauge as to which style is superior, arnis or fencing, regardless of whether it was the first battle or not.

 

Anyway, I have a copy of the original Italian on my site if anybody wants to look at it. The battle takes place on page 15 and 16 although the entire thing is a good read.

 

http://www.capitaldocepares.com/files/pigafetta.pdf

 

Lapulapu's people were apparently really really provoked because immediately before the battle Magellan's men had burned Lapulapu's village which was actually still on fire while they were fighting.

 

And by the way, for what it's worth, I prefer Arnis.

[Rank7]

arnis? x-plain PLZ

[bart]

arnis? x-plain PLZ

 

Arnis is one of the words along with Eskrima and Kali to denote weapon based Filipino Martial Arts. I'm surprised you don't know that if you attend an Inosanto lineage school. What does your teacher use to refer to Filipino Martial Arts?

[jarrettmeyer]

Anyone who learns a "free-style" fighting technique designed to actually cause injury will beat any olympic fencer out there. Fencing is a very "proper" sport. There are too many rules about right-of-way, valid and invalid point areas, etc. And the modern day foil, saber, or epee that is used by fencers would not stand up to the slightest parry from a thrust or swing designed to actually cause damage. Fencers are not taught to defend themselves with a blade, they are taught to fence according to FIE rules and regulations.

[Rank7]

arnis? x-plain PLZ

 

Arnis is one of the words along with Eskrima and Kali to denote weapon based Filipino Martial Arts. I'm surprised you don't know that if you attend an Inosanto lineage school. What does your teacher use to refer to Filipino Martial Arts?

 

thanks.

 

here its just kali.

[krzychicano]

It's possible

[lhommedieu]

Anyone who learns a "free-style" fighting technique designed to actually cause injury will beat any olympic fencer out there. Fencing is a very "proper" sport. There are too many rules about right-of-way, valid and invalid point areas, etc. And the modern day foil, saber, or epee that is used by fencers would not stand up to the slightest parry from a thrust or swing designed to actually cause damage. Fencers are not taught to defend themselves with a blade, they are taught to fence according to FIE rules and regulations.

 

It's true that "right of way" rules, point areas, etc. do not accurately reflect the entire nature of a sword-fight. Ditto the size and weight issue of the swords involved. What's more to the point (if you'll excuse the pun) is that Olympic fencers are competing on a point system that allows a certain amount of risk to get a point. Historical-style fencing is more conservative.

 

However, when you measue an Olympic-class fencer's physical attributes and the skill level brought about by that level of training against that of todays's historical-style fencer: the Olympic-class fencer has a superior advantage. A further point is that many Olympic-style fencers are very familiar with historical-style fencing and practice both styles. There are only so many ways to move a sword, and the willingness to follow one set of rules in one context does not preclude the ability to follow another set of rules in another context.

 

Best,

 

Steve Lamade

[Treebranch]

Arnis. Now I still think a Warring States period Samurai would waste them both, but that's just my opinion.