SBN Doug Posted March 6, 2002 Posted March 6, 2002 On 2002-03-05 14:57, TKD_McGee wrote: I supose that Homosexuality is taken literally too?!? HEY U NEED TO BE TOLERANT OF GAYS. Buddy, read your Bible before you diss it. After you have read your Bible, maybe you should look at a new church to go to since the one you belong to is "Bull ****" I don't know what you're on, but I never said anything about homosexuality. So rant all you want on that, I'm not discussing it. Nor am I showing any dissrespect for the bible in questioning YOUR interpretation of its content. I'm talking about your literal interpretation of not "bowing" to other men. I'm still waiting for you to quote the verse, since you're obviously an expert, where it states that you will not make a bowing motion with your torso. And as soon as you do that, let me know where it differentiates between a full bow and a curtsey type motion. The bible tells us not to bow to others in the sence that we should not worship other men as gods or idols as gods. The physical motion of bowing as a show of respect is NOT addressed in the bible. "Bowing your heads in respect is different to bowing to another man or an object. There are two types of bows. One is the common japanese type greeting bow. The other common is the full bow somewhat simular to the bows which many islamic people perform. A full bow to the floor with your face touching it." In our art, we have the partial bow from a standing position, and a formal bow in a kneeling position where we bow all the way to the ground. You say bowing in respect is different from bowing to another person or object. I don't agree. You bow in respect TO another person, and we bow in respect to the American flag, an object. I'm not a buddist, so I can't speak for that portion of your arguement. Then again, I could be missunderstanding your point, but I've certainly tried to make sence out of it and can't. Kuk Sool Won - 4th danEvil triumphs when good men do nothing.
TKD_McGee Posted March 6, 2002 Posted March 6, 2002 Arat, Buddism is still a religon that is used in many Martial Arts. It is taken seriously and treated seriously. I think its ridiculous to do a full bow at a ceremony myself. And I haven't done it either. That is also a huge cop out using Christian people as hippocrits.. everyone is the same. Doug you are an idiot, the bow I am refering to is the second bow, FULL BOW. A respect bow is fine, but a FULL BOW is not. We don't bow to the american flag, we salut it. It is obvious to me when Buddism is used in ceremonies such as bowing, candles, incents.. maybe it isn't very clear to your thick head. I am not going to argue anymore, ill just end up making everyone mad and putting them down. I don't see a verse where you can edit the Bible to your own liking either. Its either all or nothing. _________________ Do unto others, as they done to you. [ This Message was edited by: TKD_McGee on 2002-03-06 08:43 ] Do unto others, as they done to you.
Iron Arahat Posted March 6, 2002 Posted March 6, 2002 Yes there is a relationship between Buddhism and many arts. I think you should learn more about what you speak in regards to Shinto and Buddhism before you pass judgement. Again I must state that you are unclear on the division between Shinto and Buddhism. Which is understandable in that many Buddhist temples are near Shinto shrines, and that many japanese follow Shinto and Buddhist ways. Judo is based on Shinto protocol, not buddhist. I never stated anyone was a hippocrit...and I'm not sure if you really believe everyone is the same in some of your prior posts about Catholics, Mormon, Buddhists, and Homosexuals... Martial Arts School http://www.shaolinwushu.cahttp://www.liveyyc.comCalgary Photographer: http://www.jdirom.com
TKD_McGee Posted March 6, 2002 Posted March 6, 2002 Every human is considered the same. Their doctrine isnt. If I were to go out of the way and corrupt doctrine to my own liking then it would be a problem. Hey If I wanted to marry a sheep that would be ok then? Shinto or Buddism still use the full bow. I don't partake in classes that practice those concepts. I am just saying, as a Christian, that I should not bow or take part in other religous practices. _________________ Do unto others, as they done to you. [ This Message was edited by: TKD_McGee on 2002-03-06 10:59 ] Do unto others, as they done to you.
Iron Arahat Posted March 6, 2002 Posted March 6, 2002 I have never seen a full bow by Buddhists in relation to martial arts. There is a big difference between religion and martial arts, even if the art has roots as such. I not sure where you got the sheep comment from, but I don't know where the homosexual comment cam from either. Amituofo Martial Arts School http://www.shaolinwushu.cahttp://www.liveyyc.comCalgary Photographer: http://www.jdirom.com
SBN Doug Posted March 6, 2002 Posted March 6, 2002 "the bow I am refering to is the second bow, FULL BOW. A respect bow is fine, but a FULL BOW is not." In my art, there is no difference. They are both used as a show of respect. The full one is just used to be fancy at testing, etc. [ This Message was edited by: KSN Doug on 2002-03-06 12:31 ] Kuk Sool Won - 4th danEvil triumphs when good men do nothing.
spinninggumby Posted March 14, 2002 Posted March 14, 2002 Um, this might seem as kind of an unconventional or sacrilegious response but... Every time you don't feel like bowing, just take it as another opportunity to stretch and increase the flexibility in your hamstrings (if you bend ur knees slightly and lean down far enough), your tendons, or your lower back and spinal area. :angel: :wave: _________________ Want to know if a man's ideologies are correct? See if he is happy every morning as he arises from bed. [ This Message was edited by: spinninggumby on 2002-03-13 22:30 ] 'Conviction is a luxury for those on the sidelines'William Parcher, 'A BEAUTIFUL MIND'
Shaolin Posted March 14, 2002 Posted March 14, 2002 On 2002-03-06 10:57, TKD_McGee wrote: Shinto or Buddism still use the full bow. I don't partake in classes that practice those concepts. I am just saying, as a Christian, that I should not bow or take part in other religous practices. When we used to bow at the Dojo it was said that we were bowing to all those who had ever entered it before us. If there is a God who created this great universe do you really think he's obsessing over your bowing? If so he must be really pissed that you have chosen not to turn the other cheek and are instead involved in a heathen martial art. Jim _________________ Moy Yat Ving Tsun Rest in peace dear teacher, dear friend, dear brother, and dear father: Moy Yat Sifu [ This Message was edited by: Shaolin on 2002-03-14 00:09 ] Moy Yat Ving Tsun Rest in peace: Moy Yat Sifu
Ryukyu1 Posted March 14, 2002 Posted March 14, 2002 It's so interesting how religion can cause such deep divides. I have grown up in a majority Catholic country haveing Catholicism rammed down my throat from an early age and I am not going to claim I can quote from the Bible but as I remember it the Bible says we should not worship false Gods etc... Personally I think there is nothing wrong with a respectful bow both entering or leaving the Dojo. At the start and end of class me kneel and on the command the Sensei bows to the class and the class bows to the Sensei...OUT OF RESPECT..not some wild obsessed religious cult!! As for meditating I can't see how that is related to religion unless you treat it that way, and if you do why not channel it to your beliefs. I do have to say TKD that you have been exceptionally disrespectful and to Doug and Iron. This is a forum for sharing our ideas and interpretations on subjects. I don't feel calling someone and idiot and ridiculling their beliefs is needed here, the Christian Crusades ended a long long time ago. Also what the hell has homoexuality and sheep got to do with this topic? [ This Message was edited by: Ryukyu1 on 2002-03-15 02:56 ]
KickChick Posted March 14, 2002 Author Posted March 14, 2002 Exactly....again, topic is about "bowing" .... and really I equate that with "respectful greeting" ... plain and simple. If someone were to extend their hand to you, you would extend yours in a hand shake that would be a greeting of mutual respect. C'mon lets not go off on a tangent ... this is how this whole thing got started by these 2 kids. Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill! Chill out and leave sex and animals out of this .... If you are going to quote the bible ... then all of us here (according to the Bible) are damned for eternity! Nowhere in the Bible are we told to resort to violence in defense of ourselves. "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, do not resist him who is evil; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if anyone wants to sue you, and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. And whoever shall force you to go one mile, go with him two... love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." (Matthew 5:38-44) ....nobody here knows this but I am also a Sunday School teacher _________________ 1st dan Black Belt Tae Kwon Do (ITF)/ CardioKickbox/Fitness Instructor [ This Message was edited by: KickChick on 2002-03-14 09:09 ]
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