Why common arguments against grappling are wrong

[tufrthanu]

Well I agree there isn't much leverage involved in striking so you are correct in the assumption that if someone kicks or punches you in the body or can't hit the eyes every time they are in trouble. But without getting too far afield there are spots on the body that are fairly easy to hit that have instant benefits. We can go over some more of the points that can give a beginner a leg up if you want. You are correct in stating however that sparring is an important part of the learning process. Not least of which because it tells you what you should be doing for your particular aptitudes in a fight.

[judoguy]

What we are talking about here are attribute based arts. Striking arts tend to rely more on physical attributes ie: speed, strength, then grappling arts generally do. That is not to say that arts like judo and bjj don't require some attributes but generally grappling arts don't. Endurance is the key attribute in most serious grappling styles. That is what allows for smaller people to beat larger ones. I belive a lady who was a judo blackbelt killed her husband years ago in selfdefense.

Edited January 9, 2005 by judoguy

[tufrthanu]

What exactly do you consider a serious grappling style? Speed favors the smaller opponent...and I think strength is more important to grappling than it is to striking as power, which is what determines how much impact there is, can be increased with with more speed or more strength.

[VinnieDaChin]

naturally, size will matter regardless of whether you are striking or grappling, however, in grappling, where you have to opportunity to control your opponent's balance, you might have a better chance.

 

beautifully put.

[SevenStar]

Speed favors the smaller opponent...and I think strength is more important to grappling than it is to striking as power, which is what determines how much impact there is, can be increased with with more speed or more strength.

 

speed is VERY relative here. humans can only achieve so much of it. If greater amounts of speed could be produced, you'd see little guys like de la hoya knocking out big guys like tyson, but that will never happen. That's why there are weight classes. a human will only be able to achieve so much speed - chances are, the big guy will not be too much slower than the little guy. So, the big guy with more mass and slighly less speed still puts out more force than a faster little guy. strength is very much necessary in striking, as speed isn't THAT much of an equalizer.

 

I disagree with judoguy too though - endurance is a must have, especially if you compete, but you can have all the endurance in the world and still lose if your opponent is more skilled than you. in grappling, you really need to understand kazushi, tsuri and kake. on the ground, you really need to understand space, timing and leverage. All of this combined with relaxation produces a good grappler. The attributes are a key point, but at the heart of it all is skill level.

[judoguy]

Speed favors the smaller opponent...and I think strength is more important to grappling than it is to striking as power, which is what determines how much impact there is, can be increased with with more speed or more strength.

 

speed is VERY relative here. humans can only achieve so much of it. If greater amounts of speed could be produced, you'd see little guys like de la hoya knocking out big guys like tyson, but that will never happen. That's why there are weight classes. a human will only be able to achieve so much speed - chances are, the big guy will not be too much slower than the little guy. So, the big guy with more mass and slighly less speed still puts out more force than a faster little guy. strength is very much necessary in striking, as speed isn't THAT much of an equalizer.

 

I disagree with judoguy too though - endurance is a must have, especially if you compete, but you can have all the endurance in the world and still lose if your opponent is more skilled than you. in grappling, you really need to understand kazushi, tsuri and kake. on the ground, you really need to understand space, timing and leverage. All of this combined with relaxation produces a good grappler. The attributes are a key point, but at the heart of it all is skill level.

 

Where's the disagreement? The implication of the latter part of my post indicates that technique/skill level are what matter . I was saying that grapplers rely less on physical attributes then most other styles of combat. And what happens if you have two opponents of equal skill level? Endurance wins the day in that battle don't you think?

[judoguy]

What we are talking about here are attribute based arts. Striking arts tend to rely more on physical attributes ie: speed, strength, then grappling arts generally do. That is not to say that arts like judo and bjj don't require some attributes but generally grappling arts don't. Endurance is the key attribute in most serious grappling styles. That is what allows for smaller people to beat larger ones. I belive a lady who was a judo blackbelt killed her husband years ago in selfdefense.

 

Ok now I see why you said what you said Sevenstar. I left out some info in that post. What I meant to say was that not having to rely on physical attributes, but purely ojn skill/technique is what makes people trained in the grappling arts be able to defeat larger opponents who rely on physical atributes. My statement regarding the woman who was a judo expert and killed her husband using judo in self defense was meant to be an example of this. Sorry about the lack of clarity.

[judoguy]

Opps double post.

Edited January 9, 2005 by judoguy

[judoguy]

Oh and by the way, if two fighters have equal skill but one is bigger and stronger then the other then physical attributes make a difference.

[SevenStar]

agreed