complex, long karate style suggestion + other questions

[Exponential]

I'm looking for a traditional art that takes a long time to learn and master. The ki elements in the Chinese arts concerns me, and TKD seems short. (I hear about people getting black belts in one year.)

 

Of all the different karate styles, which is the most complex and longest to get good at or master?

 

Also, being a Christian, I haven't realy made up my mind on how I feel about bows. Would it be okay not to? I'm not saying I won't; I'm just saying I don't know.

 

Thanks guys.

Edited January 5, 2005 by Exponential

[Exponential]

I almost forgot to post my goals. That might be a bit helpful. XD

 

I want to gain a lot of focus and concentration skill.

 

I want to increase my reflexes, speed, and flexibility.

 

I want a hobby that can last a long time before I become a black belt. (which goes back to wanting a complex and long art.)

 

Thanks.

[Kumite988]

Well all styles take a long time to master(it can be argued no one can ever master a style, but that's a different topic) I know the style I practice has I believe the most kata's out of any type of karate. Bringing with that a lot of depth, bunkai, applications etc.

 

As for bowing, I would'nt recommend not bowing. It has nothing to do with religion. It is just tradition and is used to show respect for the place and people you are training in or with. It's a lot just like a normal handshake.

 

All styles of karate should, if taught correctly, improve your focus and concentration. As for reflexes, speed, flexibility, I would reccomend my style again. ONLY going of of what I see at competitions however. Karate will last you forever if you want it too

[brickman]

Any karate system is good for what you are looking for, in terms of goals. It also depends on what physical aspects you agree with or not...go check out some different schools and get a feel for what it is they do. As far as bowing.....it is a sign of respect. It has nothing to do with shintoism or anything like that....if you are talking about kneeling, etc. look at it as a way to focus on what you have just learned....to relax the body and help with concentration. Again, it has nothing to do with religion....or I should say....it is only as religious as you make it.

[Sauzin]

Oh man, I don't know why but this post really bothers me.

 

First, you could practice Tae kwon do and spend an entire life getting better and continually learning. This is true of any martial system including even the most Americanized Tae kwon do you can find. If you want depth then I would suggest finding a teacher that knows kata as there is no better way to explore the depth in martial arts then by intimately knowing kata.

 

Where in Christianity does it say that you can't show physical signs of respect? No, scratch that question. You see, you can interpret what ever scripture you want to say whatever you want it to. But the second you interpret your religious teachings to mean that you shouldn't show respect to another human or to an art passed on by a lineage of disciplined artisans who have dedicated their lives and/or died to keep and make them available to you, you are crossing the line. If you were in my class or a class I was attending and you chose not to bow you would be asked to leave. Chances are you wouldn't get that far because the ego centralism, lack of respect, lack of vision, and illusions of grandeur that are prerequisites to having this problem would likely prevent you from walking in the door. And for this I am thankful. This is has nothing to do with your religion, it has everything to do with your attitude.

 

I also find it frustrating when people say that being Christian means you have to have a problem with ki. Do you even know what ki is defined as? It literally means life energy or breath energy. You believe in breathing right? Well there you go, that's what some people call ki. So either your religion is telling you to immediately stop breathing because you might offend God, or you need to take a little more time to understand the meaning of the things you think you disagree with. Scientifically measurable kinetic and electric energy is created in your body every second of every day you are alive. You're not going to find a martial art that doesn't refer to these aspects by some name be it ki, power, breath, momentum, body heat, bioelectric fields, small muscle activity, circulation, or whatever. If you are looking for an art that doesn't practice ki then you are choosing your art based on what somantics they use. How smart do you think that really is?

 

I really didn't get into the Christian/martial arts debate and I really don't want to. But when you combine religion and martial arts this is the kind of thinking you risk running into. There are so many different takes on Christianity I just can't understand why one would want to bring that into martial arts when it is already so hard to find common ground. Can't we just practice martial arts? Why does doing this threaten some people’s religions beliefs? Short of ignorance I can't understand the reasoning.

[pers]

Find a good teacher and school ,The style is less important .I have practiced shotokan and it has what you are looking for but so is goju and wadoryu ,kung fu ,shito ryu ,and others . First is the teacher that must be for real and not micky mouse ! pay less attention to the number of dan grades and all the claims ,if you like me get lucky and find a good teacher then you are half way home ,it took me 8 years to get black belt ,5 years as a brown belt ! only because of the quality of the club and also the fact that I was in no hurry to wear the black belt and knowledge was more important to me .Good luck and don't forget to bow ! respect !

[Exponential]

Where in Christianity does it say that you can't show physical signs of respect? No, scratch that question. You see, you can interpret what ever scripture you want to say whatever you want it to. But the second you interpret your religious teachings to mean that you shouldn't show respect to another human or to an art passed on by a lineage of disciplined artisans who have dedicated their lives and/or died to keep and make them available to you, you are crossing the line. If you were in my class or a class I was attending and you chose not to bow you would be asked to leave. Chances are you wouldn't get that far because the ego centralism, lack of respect, lack of vision, and illusions of grandeur that are prerequisites to having this problem would likely prevent you from walking in the door. And for this I am thankful. This is has nothing to do with your religion, it has everything to do with your attitude.

 

Okay, in an attempt to keep from acting like an idiot and loosing my tempor on a forum, I'll keep this simple. My problem had nothing to do with respect, and everything to do with it registering as a sign of worship in my head. If you want to assume that I don't respect someone because I'm not sure about bowing, do so. I could see the disrespect in refusing to bow knowing that it's an insult, but that's why I asked if it was okay. If I decide that I /do/ have a problem with it, then I simply won't go.

 

You don't know me, and you don't know my reason for not wanting to bow. Go rant to someone who cares.

[Exponential]

Scientifically measurable kinetic and electric energy is created in your body every second of every day you are alive. You're not going to find a martial art that doesn't refer to these aspects by some name be it ki, power, breath, momentum, body heat, bioelectric fields, small muscle activity, circulation, or whatever. If you are looking for an art that doesn't practice ki then you are choosing your art based on what somantics they use. How smart do you think that really is?

 

It's semantics not somantics (I do believe what you're reffering to is more of the syntax used to manipulate the underlying semantics, but whatever), and I know what ki is. I don't want an art involving it. Forbid it would offend you.

 

And because of the bit of a flame war I've gotten into, I a lmost forgot to thank everyone for their advice.

 

Thanks all.

[Kaminari]

Sauzinn said, "If you want depth then I would suggest finding a teacher that knows kata as there is no better way to explore the depth in martial arts then by intimately knowing kata."

 

It does take a long time to master any kind of style, but katas do take a long time and a lot of practice to master. I also believe (as Kumite988 mentioned) that Shito-Ryu does have the highest number of katas of the Karate styles, so that might be what you're looking for, although one style that works for one person might not be for you.

 

I am also a Christian. I look at it this way: It is not out of worship, but out of respect. Bowing (in places like China and Japan) is like a sign of appreciation, both for the person you're bowing to (let's use the teacher as an example) and appreciation for their higher level of knowledge and skill, and respect for what they are teaching you.

[Kumite988]

I fail to understand why you wouldn't begin karate because of a problem with bowing, this is a small thing you shouldn't let get in the way of a very enjoyable past time! Again as other's have said it is a matter of respect and I see no connection between respect and religion.