Submissions on the street

[Venezolano]

No, that's not true.

I have friends who had to defend theirselves in street fights situations (BJJs practicioners) and none of them have "killed" or choking somebody out to death, that's stupid, you know when the person is out and you simply left him there.

Choke somebody out is one of the best things you can't do, since you're not really hurting your opponent (so he can't say after that to police that you were the attacker), and you actually neutralize the attack.

[tufrthanu]

Facts disagree with you.

[Gumbi]

Choking someone out is a very effective way to neutralize an attacker without inflicting injury- Facts would have it that practically everyone regains conciousness when choked out, so long as the choke isnt held for too long ( a couple of minutes). The very rare instances where someone doesnt regain conciousness, alcohol or drugs are almost always factored in.

It should be noted though when we're referring to choking someone out, we're talking about cutting the blood supply to the brain, and not crushing the trachea.

[tufrthanu]

Both instances can still result in problems. Air choke can result in a crushed trachea and death. Blood choke can result in brain damage and a vegetative state.

[Venezolano]

What facts? talk with base, don't talk B.S if you don't know about it.

That's one of the best (if not the best) way to neutralize somebody without really hurting him, brain damage ocurrs if you prolong the choke for many time, or do it very oftently.

and just for curiosity, what do you think is the best way...?

[tufrthanu]

I've done Hapkido, and some BJJ, both of which teach chokes. And I have been in street fights. And I also know that many police departments have outlawed the choke hold for the very reasons I suggested. Please don't accuse me of BSing. As I said earlier in the thread my preference would be and arm or joint lock of some sort. You can break the limb this way if need be. Kicks to the knee cap also work. If you fall down circumstances change...now you are at more risk and IMHO may up the force a little...blinding the eyes and crushing testicles now becomes viable. If I felt I was truly in threat in that position then yes I would try for a choke...but at that point I feel I need to get back to my feet quickly and have run out of options. That puts the scenario way up on the danger list.

[Gumbi]

Many police department have restricted use of chokeholds because police officers have applied them in a severely incorrect way (many of them tried to choke people with their flashlights or batons). Almost every instance where perpetrators were choked to death by police, there was heavy bruising and black and blue marks on the victims neck, which does not occur when performing a caratid choke.

As I said, when speaking of chokes, I believe hes talking about blood chokes and not chokes against the windpipe. Crushing the trachea will certainly kill someone, theres no argument about that.

As far as blood chokes causing brain damage and vegetative state, that depends as to how long they're applied. A properly applied choke will render someone unconcious within 5-10 seconds of being set. Nervous tissue can survive for as long as 10 minutes without oxygen- so for arguments sake, lets say you've only got 5 minutes before nervous tissue dies (brain damage begins). 5 minutes is an AWFULLY long time to hold a choke on someone- it will never be something thats done on accident.

As far as breaking limbs, well that depends on the level of threat you faced. The beauty of choke holds is that they're capable of harmlessly rendering someone unconcious, while at the same time able to kill someone outright if the choke is prolonged. It also doesnt matter what drugs someone has taken, how big they are, or how tough they think they can be- chokes work on everyone.

[Venrix]

Actually, thats how I earned the nickname "The Sandman" as a bouncer.....I generally put them to sleep....when you think about it, it is the most "humane" thing I can do...l

Hi Master Jules,

Just a quick question. I too worked as a doorman and avoided chokes like the plague! I considered it would be a bad idea to mix alcoholic intoxication and oxygen deprivation (particularly to the point of unconsciousness). Did you experience any problems as a result of choking out someone in a club/bar?

-V-

[tufrthanu]

There was an article by Reay and Eisele in the American Journal of Forensic Pathology in 1983 that stated that a choke using the carotid artery reduces blood flow to the brain by 85 percent in the first 6 seconds. Similar to a stroke, my words. It goes on to state that while it is an apparently harmless hold it can result in death. Especially if there is movement during the choke which can damage the blood vessels or the trachea.

As to the breaking limbs thing...doesnt matter how high you are if you have a broken knee your not doing much.

[STR33T GUY]

People are choked out in Judo and BJJ all the time without dying, so I’d say that chokes are relatively safe to use. But since a few people have died from police choke holds, there is obviously some risk in using chokes, but then there is risk with strikes and throws too.

Why do people think hand/wrist locks are the best?