Is Death Touch (Dim Mak) possible?

[STR33T GUY]

I invite anyone who claims to have mastered the Dim Mak to come try it out on me.

 

Of course anyone pretending to poke or prod me should be fully prepared to be poked back at.....

Hmmm, triple warmer vs. elbow combo, my money is on Luckykboxer.

[DLopez]

Pressure points are the icing on the cake - they should not be relied on.

 

A person should be hit hard, and in vulnerable places so that even if you don't hit a pressure point you may still incapacitate them. PPS do not replace any other aspect of your training, they are an interesting addition and the last 5% of workable self-defence.

 

That is not how we employ pressure point attacks in KSW. They are not "strikes" designed to daze or disorient (much less kill) your opponent. When we attack pressure points, it is to get a predictable reaction to the sudden intense pain as your opponent's body moves to alleviate it. Once you've had such a technique performed on you by someone that has mastered them, you become a "believer" in the effectiveness of pressure point attacks.

 

Think about this for a sec... what is it you are trying to accomplish by punching someone? Inflict pain? Lots of it?

 

Pressure point attacks accomplish the same thing, especially when your opponent is too close to effect a punch. Make no mistake, pressure points attacks are not a replacement for punching and kicking techniques, they are just another weapon in your arsenal.

 

As for relying on them, if you train to make them an integral part of your training, it takes no thought to apply pressure point attacks - the same way you would rely on a punch. It does take a lot of time and practice to master such attacks, and I think that is where most people balk at learning them, because they want instant results and aren't willing to invest the time required to master pressure point attacks.

 

I am going to rely on every technique I have mastered, whether it uses pressure point attacks or not.

[AngelaG]

Pressure points are the icing on the cake - they should not be relied on.

 

A person should be hit hard, and in vulnerable places so that even if you don't hit a pressure point you may still incapacitate them. PPS do not replace any other aspect of your training, they are an interesting addition and the last 5% of workable self-defence.

 

That is not how we employ pressure point attacks in KSW. They are not "strikes" designed to daze or disorient (much less kill) your opponent. When we attack pressure points, it is to get a predictable reaction to the sudden intense pain as your opponent's body moves to alleviate it. Once you've had such a technique performed on you by someone that has mastered them, you become a "believer" in the effectiveness of pressure point attacks.

 

Think about this for a sec... what is it you are trying to accomplish by punching someone? Inflict pain? Lots of it?

 

Pressure point attacks accomplish the same thing, especially when your opponent is too close to effect a punch. Make no mistake, pressure points attacks are not a replacement for punching and kicking techniques, they are just another weapon in your arsenal.

 

As for relying on them, if you train to make them an integral part of your training, it takes no thought to apply pressure point attacks - the same way you would rely on a punch. It does take a lot of time and practice to master such attacks, and I think that is where most people balk at learning them, because they want instant results and aren't willing to invest the time required to master pressure point attacks.

 

I am going to rely on every technique I have mastered, whether it uses pressure point attacks or not.

The point is if you are fighting a proper moving and non-compliant partner you are not necessarily going to get your target every time. I may aim for the gallbladder-liver crossing followed by a GB20 strike, or BAR them across the GB cluster but I may not necessarily get it every time. And if I do miss the point, or get it in the direction where it is less effective, I don't want to be stood there like an idiot waiting for them to get their next attack in. It is not a game of chess.

 

If I was a security guard or cop I know how to use PPs in locks and holds to get the reaction I want or need (Stomach 4 to turn the head etc.). But as I am not in that sort of employment I am more likely to use them in a high pressure SD situation where I am going to be aiming to totally incapacitate the oppponent and not worrying about what they look like after.

 

JMHO

[kickcatcher]

Angela,

 

I don't think PPs cut the mustard. By my way of reckoning having them as the top 5% of Sd is an admition of their lack of utility and therefore you have to ask yourself why have them at all -clearly the other 95% covers what works.

 

How to test PPs application:

 

Get one RBSD nutter to act the role of street aggressor.

 

Get one PP 'expert'.

 

Task the RBSD guy with beating the PP guy by KO (TKO etc).

 

Task the PP guy with winning the fight using the PPs.

 

Blow the whistle and call the ambulance. Now I know where my money would be.

 

Normally PP guys try to decry such a test using one of two premis:

 

1. They are too deadly. If so then they aren't scalable so how o they fit within SD?

 

2. They aren't designed to be used alone so to limit the PP guy to just PPs is not representative. ...so if the PP guy won without PPs what would that prove? And at any rate such a line is an admition that they ain't effective on their own -which brings us back to the other (more useful) 95%.....

 

So to summerise, PPs are either too deadly and/or auxillary. In either case, they ain't worth the bother.

[kickcatcher]

I forgot to add...

 

http://tinypic.com/ft2z4

[DLopez]

AngelaG, you are correct in your analysis, but I'm not sure if you can see that what you are concerned about also applies to punching and kicking as well.

 

As you state, your opponent is going to try to block your punches and kicks, so what do you do if you miss the first time and you're too close to get another good punch or kick in? What other weapons do you have in your arsenal?

 

I will use my punching and kicking techniques while at distance from my opponent, and if that fails and I find myself in such close proximity that I can't kick or punch effectively, I have my joint lock/throwing techniques that employ pressure point attacks. If that fails, and I find myself in a wrestling match, then I will have to rely on my grappling skills which also offer pressure point attacks.

 

I'm not saying pressure point attacks are a better substitute for any skill you may have learned. I am merely making the point (did I just make a pun?? ) that pressure point attacks indeed work, and are very effective skills to posess that can be relied on just as much as any other skill. The only hard part about pressure point attacks is the time it takes to master them, but it's not like we're talking about an entire lifetime, although I do plan on practicing and learning them for the rest of my life.

[STR33T GUY]

Just one easy question;

 

Has anyone used pressure points successfully in a real street fight?

 

Please give details, thanks

[AngelaG]

AngelaG, you are correct in your analysis, but I'm not sure if you can see that what you are concerned about also applies to punching and kicking as well.

 

As you state, your opponent is going to try to block your punches and kicks, so what do you do if you miss the first time and you're too close to get another good punch or kick in? What other weapons do you have in your arsenal?

 

I will use my punching and kicking techniques while at distance from my opponent, and if that fails and I find myself in such close proximity that I can't kick or punch effectively, I have my joint lock/throwing techniques that employ pressure point attacks. If that fails, and I find myself in a wrestling match, then I will have to rely on my grappling skills which also offer pressure point attacks.

 

I'm not saying pressure point attacks are a better substitute for any skill you may have learned. I am merely making the point (did I just make a pun?? ) that pressure point attacks indeed work, and are very effective skills to posess that can be relied on just as much as any other skill. The only hard part about pressure point attacks is the time it takes to master them, but it's not like we're talking about an entire lifetime, although I do plan on practicing and learning them for the rest of my life.

 

I think we are both approaching the same point from different angles. As you can see I do two MAs, one my Shotokan and the other my OCFM. I am all for learning about PPS and I have trained with some awesome MAists that I know utilise PPs in their every day lives (i.e. bouncers, security, armed forces.) These guys are formidable opponents and I defy anyone that doesn't believe in PPs to go and train with one of them!

 

I certainly wouldn't want to go up against someone who has trained for years in PPs. In fact, even some boxers are looking into them, to try and get a KO out of their matches!

[kickcatcher]

In fact, even some boxers are looking into them, to try and get a KO out of their matches!

where did you hear that?

[pineapple]

I don't know of any death touch, however, pressure points has it's place. Pressure points are used quite often by law enforcement agencies where strikes are limited due to the laws regarding use of force by officers. I have personally used pressure points with success to make people become more compliant.

 

It is rumored that a death touch requires hitting several different points at the right angle in succession. If this is true, it would be difficult to apply unless your opponent was already unconcious.