Stances; Master Jules vs. STR33T GUY

[STR33T GUY]

I know next to nothing about GoJu Ryu or any of the other arts that are Master Jules style. I also don’t know what Master Jules knows about my style, so I’ll go first with my stance (I have only one fighting stance).

 

From The Fighter’s Handbook by me (but unpublished)

Stance

 

The body has a crouched posture with knees slightly bent. The fighter stands approximately at a 45 degree angle to his opponent with the week side forward. The feet should be approximately shoulder width apart, with the lead foot pointing towards the opponent while the rear foot is facing away at about 45 degrees. The fighter’s weight should be on the balls of his feet. If most of his weight is on one foot then the heel of his other foot should be higher than the heal of the heavy foot.

 

This stance varies with the distance from the opponent. Outside of the opponent’s reach, the feet are closer together to give better mobility with some loss of stability. Conversely inside the opponent’s reach, the feet are farther apart to give better stability with some loss of mobility.

 

A peek-a-boo style of guard is used. The hands are held high with the wrists at about eye level and the forearms kept vertical with elbows close to the body. The hands can either be in an open position with palms facing out; or with a closed fist, palms facing in and thumbs touching the temples. The rule is, the closer the fighters are to each other the more closed the guard should be.

 

Master Jules, how do your stances compare/contrast with mine?

[cross]

Im not sure how Master Jules will respond to this, but i also do karate and the variety of stances taught are not static positions but rather transitionary positions you may find yourself "hitting" while moving around.

 

I personally start with a stance similar to the one you describe with a similar guard when sparring or practicing self defence. But from there i move around and depending on the type of attack im performing or how im moving i will often find myself in one of the variety of karate stances for a short moment, then i either come back to the fighting stance or move to a different stance if i follow up with a sweep or throw.

 

When you "hit" the position it wont be exactly the same as when its practised in basics but when you practise it in basics you feel HOW the technique should be. For example, the forward stance is obviously signifying the transfer of your total mass in the forward direction.

 

Hope this sheds some kind of light on the use of different stances in karate.

 

If not, i tried anyway.

Edited March 28, 2005 by cross

[kickcatcher]

I'm not your target market but I'll give you the benefit of my inexperience anyway....

 

After 10 years of MA and learning numerous stances, I've come to the conclusion that.... it is far more sensible to think of 'postures' rather than 'stances'.

 

In the free-movement phase I use a boxingesque posture much like the fighting stance you describe (STR33T GUY). The hands are either up in guard or 'doing' something -like punching. On occassion -if a shift to a grappling strategy on your opponent's part is perceived, you should get a bit lower (not in the classical styleee) and wider or longer (I prefer wider but I'm no expert) and thus resemble a wrestler's posture.

 

In clinch you partially base-out. This is a clinch posture and it is largely dependant on the grip. The extreme is sprawling (widest base). But again once you are 'doing' something like a throw or takedown, the posture becomes less definable. But weight is normally low.

 

On the ground you have ground postures which naturally are the normal BJJ positions.

 

The only other posture is the 'fence' posture used in real life confrontations.

[STR33T GUY]

I'm not your target market but I'll give you the benefit of my inexperience anyway....

 

Everyone is invited to this party, I’m sure Master Jules will eventually show up.

 

To use your terminology, I see the stance that I described as a neutral posture, once the striking/grappling begins the postures can become endless. Any lull in the action should be accompanied with a return to the neutral posture (assuming it’s still in the stand up/striking phase of the fight).

[Master Jules]

Just wrote a huge post.....had a great story in it and everything.....took me so long that when I went to post it......I lost it......argggggggg!!!!!

 

No worries......lemme have dinner and Ill get back to it later.....promise...lol

[Master Jules]

Stances......Ill try not to lose this post....lol

 

Systems teach a variety of stances.....

 

Its not that one is good and one is bad, it depends on what you need to accomplish.....

 

For example......

 

Sheiko Dachi (sumo stance) is a very solid, stable stance.....thats the upside.....the downside is....it doesnt offer very much in terms of quick mobility.

 

Nekoashi Dachi (cat stance) on the other hand (which btw is a typical Okinawan fighting stance), offers you the ability to move very quickly in any direction....the downside to it is that it isnt a very stable, well grounded stance.

 

You asked how our stances compare/contrast to each other.....honestly.....I dont know.....I see your bio states that you train in MMA.....I can only assume that you (hopefully) have been exposed to several types of fighting styles, which would mean that youve seen a variety of stances.....

 

The only way to actually see how what we practice compares/contrasts is to get together and train with each other, and kinda "compare notes".....

 

I have been very fortunate over the last 31 years of training....especially when I owned my dojo. I have made it a point to invite as many different teachers of as many different styles to conduct seminars, as I have done for them at their dojos, so that I/we can be exposed to as many different things as possible.

 

When training in a dojo, and working on fighting techniques based on your particualr system, you generally are somewhat limited in a sense that during sparring, you fight mostly the same fellow students, who are learning the same system that you are.....now, while this is good, and you certainly are learning.....you training can be made better.....

 

On the street, youre not always gonna come up against a guy who is practicing the same style you are. By getting exposure to other systems, you can become somewhat familiar with what to expect from an opponent outside of your system. And that can be a real help in the "real world".....remember.....dojo sparring, while it may be hard fighting, is still being done in a controlled environment, which certainly gives a form of comfort level not found on the street when encountering a stranger......and in the real world, "question marks" cause problems.....

 

Quick bar/bouncer story.....

 

Escorting a drunk pain in the a$$ out of the bar one night.....his friends were helpfull, cause he was way outta line, and like I said....drunk and stupid....lol....anyway....

 

He was good about getting outside the bar.....but when we got to the sidewalk....thats when his mouth went into overdrive.....

 

He started blah blah blah about how he was a 3rd dan in TKD, and he was about to kick everyones a$$......blah blah blah.....At this point, one of our "regulars" stumbled out of the bar to watch the "excitement"......He overhears this guy going off about his being a 3rd degree, and being drunk.....he starts blabbling about how "The Sandman is a master dude....hes a 4th degree and hes gonna kick your a$$ !!!!".....very helpfull.....anyway.....seeing the big "Sandman" logo on the back of my shirt, he starts coming at me screaming about how he represents such and such TKD dojo, and that he's gonna take me apart....blah blah blah......if I had a nickle for every time I heard that......now.....hearing himtell me about his TKD background, and havin seen many TKD guys, as well as trained with lots of them......I know that theres about an 80% chance that this guy is gonna try to kick me.....probably to the head, or at least some kinda fancy somethin' or other.....

 

Naturally.....he does a double jump kick.....he was drunk, so it was sloppy.....I blocked the kicks with open palm, snapped a frontleg front kick to his stomach, and slammed him with a really hard roundhouse to the ribcage......that kinda ended things, and as he was gettin back up, the cops rolled up, so his friends helped himacross the street to go home......he stayed there for a while making faces and taunting us....at one point, doing some fancy jumping spinning something or other kick, from which he fell flat on his a$$, which caused the whole group of people on the sidewalk to laugh hysterically......

 

learn as much as you can about as much as you can.....itll come in handy.....I promise....

 

As far as my own use of stances.....I simply stand in such a way as to make myself comfortable, ready to move into whatever the situation calls for.....do I need to be solidly grounded ?.....do I wanna be able to move quickly ?......I let the situation dictate what and where I gonna be doing whatever Im gonna be doing......

 

Thats footwork......as far as hand positions.....

 

Theres closed hands, open hands, and if youre workin with open hands.....palms up, palms down, palms facing the opponent, edge of hand facing the opponent......that depends on what techniques they chose to come at you with, and how you want to deal with it.....do you wanna deflect and redirect ?.....do you wanna catch it and go for locks ?.......there are just so many variables......

 

we all have friends that dont train.....how many times do they come up to you and fool around saying things like..."what would you do if I grabbed you like this.....or came at you this way......" There are just so many different responses that weve learned for any given attack.....just go with the flo.....use what works best for you at the given moment.....never limit yourself......

[cross]

Wow Jules. You must get tired from pressing the full-stop key so much.

[STR33T GUY]

Good bar fight story. Please feel free to tell more fight stories. There’s nothing like a real fight story to illustrate a martial art technique or principle.

 

It seems to me that your personal style is more complex and varied than my personal style. I’m unable to make any further comparisons at this time.

 

As for my martial arts training it’s as follows; boxing, kickboxing, wrestling and jujitsu. I was an amateur kick boxer and fought under modified Mauy Thai rules. Elbows weren’t allowed and neither was the spinning back fist because it often resulted in an accidental elbow. But leg kicks and knees were allowed. Of course we all train in the use of elbows because it was expected that some of us would turn professional. The wrestling that I did was Olympic free style with some Greco-Roman thrown in. My Jujitsu instructor was also cross trained in BJJ so there was a lot of ground stuff, at least 50% of our time was spent on the ground.

 

The stance that I described is close to that of Mike Tyson’s because I fight a lot like Mike. To give you an idea of how I fight, think of Mike Tyson using a lot of elbows with a few knees and kicks throw in. And this version of Iron Mike likes to ground and pound as well.

 

When I was a young man I had a bad attitude and I got into a lot of street fights which got me in trouble with the law. My longest sentence was six months and I got into fights there too.

 

My motto is “Hit fast, Hit hard, Hit often”.

[Master Jules]

Wow Jules. You must get tired from pressing the full-stop key so much.

 

Whats the "full stop key" ?????

 

And btw Str33t Guy....how old are you ?

[JEM618]

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