Let's talk about JKD

[street fighter]

What is the real JKD? Do you mean teach only what Bruce brought to the table before his death? I guess that would make it like Tae Kwon Do and other traditional styles and not what Bruce had in mind for it grow and to expand with the times and our changing needs. If that is the case that would be a shame, Mr Inosanto certainly has earned the right to practice the art as he sees fit.

[Kickbox]

Guro Dan's system is called the jeet kune do concept. It blends the training philosophy of JKD with a mix of different martial arts like BJJ/FMA/Thai boxing and a lot of arts that Bruce Lee did not get to train in. Guro Dan has evolved the JKD into the JKD concept. If Bruce Lee showed up at a JKDconcepts school he would have to take lessons in order to keep up with the JKD concepts instructor. Bruce Lee would have to become an apprentice instructor in JKD concepts and work his way up the ladder. But the same thing would happen if a JKD concepts instructor could go to Bruce Lee's school. He would have a hard time fitting in to the class. It's two different arts. Sort of like WTF tae kwon do and the 1960's Korean karate style tae kwon do. They have the same name and some of the things are similar but the arts ave very different. You can argue all day long that TKD is just TKD but it's not.

 

And like 1993 UFC fighters could not win over 2003 UFC fighters. Things change. Some people liked it when the UFC was art versus art. That was the real UFC. Now the UFC is mano e mano, man against man, style means not so much. I liked the first UFC's best when you could see the different arts and then see how the arts were hold up. The real JKD was what Bruce taught. The new JKD is the concept.

[siufeifei]

Guro Dan has evolved the JKD into the JKD concept. If Bruce Lee showed up at a JKDconcepts school he would have to take lessons in order to keep up with the JKD concepts instructor.

 

I'm not sure what I think about these two lines. First of all, it is only natural that if Bruce Lee turned up today at a JKD Concepts school that he would have to retrain. After all, he has missed 30 odd years of training.

 

Bruce Lee didn't believe in martial arts stadning still. At it's core, this is one of the fundemental ideas behind JKD, to NOT STAND STILL. If no evolution takes place, then what different is it to the Traditional martial arts training methods that he spoke out against so much?

But the same thing would happen if a JKD concepts instructor could go to Bruce Lee's school. He would have a hard time fitting in to the class.

 

I don't think this would be the case. The core of JKD as Bruce lee taught was based on his experience on Wing Chun, with emphasis on the sticky hands aspects and some of the loose hand techniques. These are things that still feature highly, if not more, in Dan Inosanto's teaching with its co-working of similar aspects from other styles.

The real JKD was what Bruce taught. The new JKD is the concept.

 

I really don't like how you wrote this. What Bruce Lee taught was what JKD was at that point in time. Yes, you could say that Dan Inosanto's version is different and might not be what Bruce Lee's version would've evolved into but i can guarantee you that if Bruce were alive, his JKD wouldn't be like what it was 30 years ago.

 

Now I can understand why it is good to keep a record of what JKD was at the time of his death but to call that version real and all else modified version and hence imply that it is fake, is wrong.

[Kickbox]

The only fake JKD is the one that tries to exclude all others. I tend to agree with those who say that JKD can evolve. There is now a PFS JKD, a JKDC, OJKD, SBG JKD and MMA JKD. All follow the Bruce Lee principles. aLL ARE VALID. I also agree with the Bruce Lee Foundation in that there should always be protected a JKD that represents the historic method that Sigung Lee used. Otherwise JKD could eventually evolve into all sorts of different sub interpretations. The BLF has made a wise decision in creating a sactuarary for the original/authenic/real/classical/Pre 1973 or what ever you want to call it JKD that Bruce lee taught. They also can, and they are the only group that has this ability, legally police the teaching of the historic JKD and bring pretenders to court for using the name Bruce Lee, jeet kune do and Jun Fan and the JKD logo/design.

 

That is a good thing for JKD.

[siufeifei]

But why do you think it is a good thing? My main disagreement with the whole thing is it turns JKD into the very thing that Bruce Lee was trying to fight against.

 

i can see a point in preserving it as it was but I can't see anything really beneficial beyond the historical and sentimental issues. I just can't see why one organisation must have control over the name and use of the name. You say that all follow Bruce Lee's principles and that all are valid, then aren't all JKD?

[Kickbox]

The principles like non-telegraphic,independent motion etc stand on their own. Anyone can apply the principles. PFS/JKD has applied the principles differently than JKDC. I just don't want to see a JKD group advertise that their "evolved" expression is superior to what Bruce Lee presented. You see so many advertisements for JKD that you cannot be shure what you are buying.True Bruce Lee had no knowledge of advanced FMA or BJJ but there is a significance in being able to go to the source. I am shure that some JKD instructors do not teach the same art. Some versions change each year. Each has his own opinion of how JKD should evolve. There was only one Bruce Lee and because of that we need to always be able to view/practice/identify his art and expression of JKD. I commend the BLF on taking the unpopular stand to defend BL/JKD.

[siufeifei]

But where have you seen anyone present their JKD as being better than Bruce Lee's original versions? Again, the overwhelming sense I get here is that you agree with the strict control of what is taught as JKD purely because of your own sentimentality towards Bruce Lee.

 

Another thing that I can't get over is the simple fact that JKD was never meant to be a style. This level of control does nothing except fix something that was never meant to be fixed/still/set. You mentioned going back to the source which sounds good in theory but you have to remember that JKD is about training what you know honestly. Bruce Lee's source was wing chun. I say if you want to learn Bruce Lee's JKD as close as possible then start by going to learn wing chun, not the JKD that he left. To insist on teaching/learning JKD as it was is going against everything Bruce Lee has ever said about JKD. Is that a good thing? Evolved doesn't mean better or worse, it just means that it has evolved. In terms of styles that is part of JKD, if Bruce Lee hadn't passed when he did, he would surely have taken into more consideration such things like Muay Thai and BJJ. You implied that you can, if there is a genuine original version of JKD present, learn that and adapt it afterwards with reference to BJJ and Muay Thai. The thing is, if bruce Lee were alive, his JKD would be vastly different because it would have, as an integral part, reference to those two styles. Unless of course, you re saying that you're version of original JKD added to later training of BJJ is going to better than Dan Inosanto and others' versions.

 

Your whole argument seems to based on a point about proving what is genuine or what is not. Many styles out there do not have a trademarked name and yet they still function perfectly well in the world of training. Why does the Bruce Lee Foundation have to have control of the names? You don't need it. To prevent abuse of the names? To prove legitimacy? This goes back to what others have said, to prove legitimacy, ask who they trained under. The way that I and many see things is that the control over the intellectual rights of property has always been about making money, something that the Bruce Lee foundation seem to be very good at.

 

Personally, I haven't seen the Bruce Lee foundation do anything for JKD apart from sell the image of Bruce Lee and his training methods. As such they don't seem to be doing much except advertise and find ways of making money, both things feeding each other nicely.

[Kickbox]

You will see a thread called "Inosanto letter". Paula and Dan Inosanto claim that they taught "90% of all classes" and Bruce Lee only taught 10% of his classes. I think that this is pretty arrogant of Dan and Paula Inosanto. This letter really really says what they beleive (We are the "real" JKD everyone else is a fake!").They try to make the case that their JKD instruction is better than the other JKD instructors. They try to stop you from considering the other instructors because their JKD is better. In the rest of the letter they state something like their version of JKD was an improvement over what Sigung Bruce Lee had. That is why Guro Dan and Paula changed JKD to make it better. Better than what? Better than the art that Sigung Bruce Lee taught them? Sigung Lee taught many people. To really understand JKD you can not afford to take only one view unless it is the "real" JKD taught by Bruce Lee. On the tapes by Jerry Poteet Mrs. Bruce Lee says that Mr.Poteet teaches the exact JKD as taught by her late husband. She never makes that comment about Dan or Paula Inosanto. I suspect that may be why Guro Dan will not support the Bruce Lee Foundation. But then you have to think. Why would Mrs.Bruce Lee approve of the BLF? Because she is not satisfied that Guro Dan is teaching the art of JKD. He teaches the JKD cocnept.

[siufeifei]

As far i recall, Bruce Lee did not teach much at the schools and classes. If you read the interviews with his closest students, they all talk about their real training with him being in his back yard. I don't see anything in the letter that says anything about real or fake or whether anyone is better than someone else. The only points I see being made in the letter is the legitimacy of some people's claim to have been students of Bruce Lee as well as some points about how Dan Inosanto has done things.

 

You are the one who is reading into it too much. You are the one who is saying that they changed it to make it better. You really don't seem to grasp the idea of evolving. Evolving is to make something more appropriate to the time. As such whether or not it is better depends on the current environment. They evolved JKD because, JKD being a process of learning, it is natural progression, not to mention evolution being a key concept in JKD's philosophy.

 

Is it better? I don't know. IS the original JKD better? No idea. How-ever, you seem to be saying that the original IS best, which I don't think can be said.

 

I believe, if i recall correctly, Dan Inosanto disagreed with the idea of any one person owning the name of JKD and i can see why he would feel this way. As for your final three lines, that is pure conjecture with no base on anything. I could say that Linda Lee Cadwell supports the Bruce Lee Foundation's actions because she can see how she can get money from it. Don't forget that the Bruce Lee foundation was founded by her so well, she's not likely to go against her own organisation, is she?

 

I should say though, that I do see a legitimate reason to own the name and that is so that you have a fixed name to go along with the preservation of a fixed version of JKD. This way, when people go into JKD place they know they are learning the UNFINISHED JKD that Bruce Lee was developing. Like i said before, it serves as part of a preservation method BUT like i said, that turns it into something that Bruce Lee would've hated which leads us back in a nice circle.

 

You still haven't really addressed the points i have mentioned in my previous posts. You have been saying the same thing over and over again and that is Dan Inosanto shouldn't be using the JKD name, his JKD isn't better, which I should point out, he never claims this and that the only real JKD is the original.

 

I'm probably going to get an ear bashing for this but you are begining to sound like a brainwashed fan. I think I've said enough and this discussion doesn't seem to be progressing.

[Kickbox]

The Cadwells are very wealthy and don't need the income from JKD. The two people that have most benefited fron JKD are you guessed it Dan and Paula Inosanto. They have made $100K or more per year for about 20-30 years off of a chance friendship with Bruce Lee. That is why they fight for the name and they are against anyone that threatens them. I am a Jerry Poteet fan, no doubt about it. I have seen the BL JKD and compared it to the JKDC/PFS/SBG etc versions. I am a consummer. They want to sell to me. I can make up my onw choice of "research" arts. Bruce's JKD worked. And if those who dropped it to play with sticks were serious they would have discovered that Bruce had the right system..you just need to practice.

 

You know what? It is O.K. to disagree. Dan and Paula Inosanto set the stage for complaining that everybody is wrong, or fake but them. It's time that people heard the other side of the story.