Grappling getting more technical

[Shane]

Anyone who has ever trained in ground grappling knows that it is a very technical field. I have noticed that over the past 10 years it just keeps getting more technical. I remember 10 years ago my Instructor use to fight NHB and a lot of the matches were won by submission. Now when I go to the fights I rarley see a submission its about who can get in the most and hardest strikes to end the fight.

 

Is this because grapplers are getting so good at the submissions and at defending against them?

 

That is what I think. Any comments on this topic, does anyone notice this happening?

 

Note: Remember the first UFC? Royce Gracie won that one and he did not even get hit. I dont even remember him hitting any of his Opp. Just getting in closing the gap and submitting them. Actually he did get some good kidney strikes in with his heel while he had his Opp. in his guard.

 

BUT THIS GOES TO SHOW YOU HOW MUCH MORE TECHNICAL GRAPPLING HAS BECOME, AND WITH THAT FIGHTERS MUST GO RIGHT BACK TO BASIC STRIKING!!!!!

[VinnieDaChin]

the better your opponent is, the less space, or imperfection, he needs to get away from what youre trying to do to him.

 

now that more and more people know grappling, they know what to train for.

[White Warlock]

In the first UFC, Gracie went against people who had little to no grappling skills, so submission was all that was required.

 

Yes, more UFC-type competitors are studying grappling, but there's also been a recognition that it's not all that easy to commit to pure grappling when someone is pounding on you, thus the transition.

[Gumbi]

People are crosstraining now, of course its going to be more difficult to catch a submission hold. Goes too with grapplers who can stand with strikers and not get knocked out.

 

It really does just make circles- you argue that fighters need to go back to basic striking and that was a trend in the UFC a few years back. During that time, strikers would learn how to sprawl and survive on the ground in order to keep the fight on the feet. The grapplers in turn learned how to strike to survive on the feet.

 

I personally think the trend now is fighting from the clinch- that seems to be the place where fights are won and lost in today's MMA, and its entirely up to you if you decide to work takedowns from there or striking with the knees and elbows.

[SevenStar]

Is this because grapplers are getting so good at the submissions and at defending against them?

 

That is what I think. Any comments on this topic, does anyone notice this happening?

 

BUT THIS GOES TO SHOW YOU HOW MUCH MORE TECHNICAL GRAPPLING HAS BECOME, AND WITH THAT FIGHTERS MUST GO RIGHT BACK TO BASIC STRIKING!!!!!

 

Nah, I disagree with that. In mma, people are playing their game. the ones you see fighting for submissions on the ground are the grapplers - or the strikers that are very good at grappling - silva, coleman, the gracies, minotauro, etc. The ones that are striking are the ones good at striking - silva, cro cop, liddell, etc.

 

The difference is that the strikers cross train now. Look at liddell- it's almost impossible to take him down, because he cross trains and is excellent at defending takedowns. You HAVE to strike with him. Grappling has ALWAYS been higly technical. Royce was highly techniqcal at it in UFC 1. What changed is that over time people have begun to cross train. Consequently, it's harder to get some people down now. Once they are down, they know how to grapple as well, so you can't easily dominate them. It's all about cross training.

[Rich67]

The biggest thing I think people overlook when they talk about the "old days" of the UFC, is the new introduction of rules, time limits, and restarts due to lack of activity. Yes, I agree that many people are out there cross-training and more aware, but the new MMA/UFC time and round limitations have a major impact on the outcomes. Back in the early UFC days, exclusive grapplers like Royce could get the takedown, and take forever in their element. This "realistic fight" environment gave him and his like a good advantage, so they could take all their time, wear their opponent down, and eventually wait for them to get frustrated and make a bad move that would lead to a submission. Now, if a pure grappler were to do that in this day and age, chances are the ref would restart the fight or the round would end. The game would begin all over. Hence, many guys began to train heavy to avoid takedowns (the sprawl, learn other avoidance techniques, etc) and utilize heavy strikes. The new rules started to favor the heavy strikers- especially the ones who can maintain their uprightedness and/ or strike heavy from the ground. This way they could fend off any activity for the length of the round, and would not let the grapplers get "in their game" long enough to find the submission. They would simply tie the grappler up, and let the ref or bell stop the action. IMHO, I felt the original no time-limit UFC was more realistic, and more simulated a real street situation. If those days would come back again, I could see the Gracies reentering the sport and dominating again (not to say they still aren't out there and doing well). Grappling is a constantly shifting art- new techniques and new counters- you can't stagnate! Sevenstar hit it on the head- but the one thing you guys have to remember is this: You can't say grappling in and of itself is not sufficient simply based on what you see in UFC or KOTC or Pride. If your main goal is tournament style fighting, then it may be true. But in real life, you are talking about a different set of rules.

[White Warlock]

Excellent point. I agree foolhardedly.

[judoguy]

I think that fights are more or less lost in the clinch and in the takedown. It is getting harder and harder to take guy's down and keep them down which is why people are having a renewed interest in judo and the like. The best guys at takedowns are guys that can utilize rare/exotic takedowns like Karo Parisyan, Randy Couture, and Genki Sudo. Rare/Exotic takedowns also help to give them the nod when a fight goes to the judges.

[BJJShotoshe]

well, i don't believe that it is because grapplers are getting so good at submissions and defending them. i believe it is because people are getting so close to technique that they have to resort to strength, resulting in an "unfair" match. but i am with you in the technical part. most of the tournaments that i attend are usually a points grapple. if i see submission tournaments i am in a hurry to grab them up.

[Gumbi]

The biggest thing I think people overlook when they talk about the "old days" of the UFC, is the new introduction of rules, time limits, and restarts due to lack of activity. Yes, I agree that many people are out there cross-training and more aware, but the new MMA/UFC time and round limitations have a major impact on the outcomes. Back in the early UFC days, exclusive grapplers like Royce could get the takedown, and take forever in their element. This "realistic fight" environment gave him and his like a good advantage, so they could take all their time, wear their opponent down, and eventually wait for them to get frustrated and make a bad move that would lead to a submission. Now, if a pure grappler were to do that in this day and age, chances are the ref would restart the fight or the round would end. The game would begin all over. Hence, many guys began to train heavy to avoid takedowns (the sprawl, learn other avoidance techniques, etc) and utilize heavy strikes. The new rules started to favor the heavy strikers- especially the ones who can maintain their uprightedness and/ or strike heavy from the ground. This way they could fend off any activity for the length of the round, and would not let the grapplers get "in their game" long enough to find the submission. They would simply tie the grappler up, and let the ref or bell stop the action. IMHO, I felt the original no time-limit UFC was more realistic, and more simulated a real street situation. If those days would come back again, I could see the Gracies reentering the sport and dominating again (not to say they still aren't out there and doing well). Grappling is a constantly shifting art- new techniques and new counters- you can't stagnate! Sevenstar hit it on the head- but the one thing you guys have to remember is this: You can't say grappling in and of itself is not sufficient simply based on what you see in UFC or KOTC or Pride. If your main goal is tournament style fighting, then it may be true. But in real life, you are talking about a different set of rules.

 

Excellent points, its great that some people realize that UFC and many other MMA tournaments favor strikers over grapplers. Lets not forget the use of gloves allows fighters to punch as hard as they want without fear of breaking their hands (which is a very strong advantage). Im not saying that grapplers are invincible, but I do believe that grappling ability is the most important aspect of a fight.