jujutsu influence on karate

[Dark Shogun]

We often hear about Chinese influence on the development of karate such as white crane and monk fist boxing etc.

 

Dose anybody have any information on what jujutsu Ryu influenced the development of karate?

 

We already know about Wado Ryu, what influence may jujutsu have had on Goju Ryu for example?

 

What about jujutsu influence on Naha te?

[Shane]

Jujitsu has had a great amount of influence on most martial arts. Even though there are those who will disagree its true. Jujitsu can pretty much be found in most styles. This is because Jujitsu was basically a form of combat that had been designed from actually combat and for combat. Techniques that were not effective were usally proven in life and death situations to be not effective, so ofcourse when other styles started to form they would want to take from this combat proven style to make their art better.

[Dark Shogun]

Thanks for the info Shane,

 

Do you have any information on specific techniques or ryu?

 

Thanks again.

[SevenStar]

jujutsu had virtually no influence on karate, as far as I know. wado is one of the few ryu that have such an influence.

[Dark Shogun]

What about the influence jujutsu and other Japanese MA on old okinawan fighting methods. Remember, Okinawa was occupied buy the Japanese from about 1600ish. The Japanese must have had some influence, if not on karate, on it's predecessors.

[SevenStar]

the japanese styles of karate uyou see today are the result of their interaction with okinawan martial arts. AFAIK, the okinawan arts remained fairly pure. The japanese created their own systems based on what they learned in full or part from the okinawan styles.

[Dark Shogun]

Soken Matsumura, studied Jigen Ryu in Kyushu and returned to Okinawa to found Shuri te. He had menkyo(spelling?) in Jigen Ryu kenjutsu but I do not know if he studied jujutsu.

 

Thus Jigen Ryu would have influenced every karate style decended from the Shuri te lineage.

 

Could this influence of Soken Matsumura have extended to Nah te?

[SevenStar]

okay, now you're reaching.... you really have no way to verify that. matsumura originally trained in karate. He later trained in a shaolin system and later jigen ryu. he may not have incorporated jigen ryu into it at all - he already had a base of karate and shaolin, and there is no sword in shorin ryu. Also, note the name - shorin = shaolin and shows the chinese roots of his style. Why didn't he name it after jigen ryu? My guess would be that if his sword style did have any influence, it was minimal.

[Dark Shogun]

Hmmm...good point. I guess if there was any Jigen Ryu in Shorin Ryu it's influence would be minimal compared to the Chinese influence. Plus I read somwhere that he said something like "Jujutsu is better suited to women" or something like that.

[Gunyo Kogusoku]

JIgen ryu is not a school of jujutsu, but a sword school from the Satsuma domain (modern day Kagoshima Prefecture.) It is noted for it's ferocity and agressiveness in close combat with the sword and short sword.

 

The Satsuma domain's daimyo was charged with occupying the Ryukyu archipelago. Jigen ryu was the main school of swordsmanship taught to the warrior class of that domain, so when the occupying forces of the Satsuma han took over Okinawa and the Ryukyu islands, they set up Jigen ryu dojo.

 

Jigen ryu didn't have any real influence on Okinawa's hand to hand techniques, but more on the way they were systemized.

 

Here's the ryuha's official website in Japanese. There is a short video clip demonstrating the sword techniques of Jigen ryu. http://www.jigen-ryu.com