~A little confused about TKD and TSD history~

[rmclain]

You'd have to consult with a Korean Grandmaster that is over 60 years old and trained back during the early days. The Grandmasters younger than this are mostly from the sport generation of Taekwondo in Korea and haven't preserved the history properly.

 

Most Korean Grandmasters I know or have met are taekwondo people that may have originally trained in one of the original kwans, but later changed to conform to the WTF or ITF requirements and curriculum. You'll see that sometimes,...a Grandmaster claiming to be from the Ji Do Kwan, Chung Do Kwan, etc., but not teaching anything that was taught there.

 

Moo Duk Kwon is a little different. They kept the original requirements for the most part.

 

Not many of the old generation are still around or teaching. Henry Cho is still around as is Grandmaster Kim Pyung Soo in Houston. Ki Whang Kim died in 1993, Grandmaster Yemoh Ahn (Moo Duk Kwon) just died in November.

 

I'm really scared about what people are going to preach as the history of Korean martial arts following WWII in another 50 years. Already after the first 50 years there are so many false stories. People should really listen to what's left of the old generation and pass along the truth for historical purposes.

 

R. McLain

[tufrthanu]

Well we can't rely totally on what the GM's of the various arts say either. Many of them have been caught in contradictory or unprovable statements.

[Keumgang]

Thank you all! Now, I have a better understand about the history!

[Sam]

Just a small point.

 

tufrthanu its interesting you mentioned that TKD isnt based on Tae Kyong at all because you've seen the videos.....

 

Because in the 15 volume encyclopedia of Tae Kwon Do by Major General Choi Hong Hi he states that it was one the the main influencing factors on Tae Kwon Do mentality and posture....

 

Just thought i'd bring that up. Not trying to flame anyone or start an arguement, just repeatingwhat i know. [oh and moern tae kyong is very different from ancient tae kyong]

[Skolar]

ok...before i begin, let me introduce my position:

 

i am jabez park, i am korean, and i have been an avid practitioner of taekwondo (original and olympic) for the past 12 years. i am very interested in tkd history and as a result have also studied shotokan and kyokushinkai karate. i have also studied taekkyun (as it is practiced today) in korea. also, my grandfather lived during the japanese occupation of korea and was forced to serve in the imperial army…so hopefully now i've established some credibility to speak on this subject…

 

everything the history books mention going back 2000 some-odd years talking about the development of korean martial arts (tkd, tsd, or what have you) only accounts that there was SOME KIND of martial art developed in korea, not necessarily tkd or tsd. both tkd and tsd are relatively new systems, having been organized circa the 1950s. the classic styles often referenced for todays modern korean arts are ‘taekkyun’ and ‘subak’ (spelled different ways in english depending on who’s writing). these systems of themselves have peculiar details, but for purposes of this argument i'll just say that kicking was a natural by-product of the ancient korean systems. in very crude terms, pretty much the only influence the ancient arts gave to the modern ones is the kicking influence. if you analyze the structure of tkd and tsd, it is near identical to shotokan karate. unfortunately the japanese occupation has forever scarred many cultural aspects of korea, especially in the martial arts. indeed, most arts after the liberation carried the name “tang soo do,” “kong soo do,” and/or “kwon bup.” these names are taken directly from the japanese martial arts. karate was originally known as “the chinese (tang dynasty) hand.” gichin funakoshi perhaps had the largest role in changing the translation to “empty hand.” however, in japanese the pronunciation of “tang dynasty” and “empty” are both “kara.” In korean, “tang dynasty” is represented as “tang” and “empty” is pronounced “kong.” as for the term “kwon bup,” it is the korean pronunciation of the term “kenpo” (“kempo”), meaning “fist method” and was also a common term used to describe karate back in the day. as for the term “soo bahk do” (subak-do), that term was coined by hwang kee, founder of tangsoodo moo duk kwan, so that his art will have more appeal to the korean people, although his forms are directly from shotokan (although he has also added his own into his system). i would hate to burst anyone’s bubble, but soon after the liberation karate was practiced almost in its original form in korea. national pride developed new form sequences and the greater emphasis on kicks, which in turn has caused tkd and tsd/sbd to evolve a separate identity from the original karate.

 

so in conclusion (of this entry anyway), what the history books say should not apply directly to modern korean arts. the ancient systems do not have as much an influence on todays korean arts as most people want to believe they do. they are more structured on the original japanese styles (and you can see that just by looking at the techniques). however, the greatest influence on the modern arts is korean national pride, and tkd/tsd/sbd and many other korean styles can definitely be identified separately from their japanese counterparts. sorry for such a long entry, but hopefully I might have cleared a few things up. If there are any other questions, please ask and I will answer to the best of my ability. I should say however, it is best to do your own research…what is most important is to be as unbiased as possible and hold a third person’s perspective.

[Kickbox]

From what experience I have had the Japanese taught the Koreans karate. From 1909-1945 the Koreans were under the control of Japan. After thr US liberated Korea in 1945 the Koreans continued to practice karate. In Korean the term karate translates as Kong soo do meaning "empty hand" or Tang soo do meaning "China hand". Because the Koreans dispised the Japanese for occupying their country they refused to call the art karate and made up stories about ancient Buddist warriors using tae kyon, subak and other things. All knowledge of specific techniques of subak or tae kyon were lost. Only the concept or idea of a fighting art remained. Some Korean authors point to ancient statues that sort of look like TKD techniques. But actually the original statues held wooden spears. The wood wore out over the centuries leaving only the statue with no spear that looks like it may have been a karate technique. Pretty smart but everyone is not fooled by that scam. To bolster Korean independence Gen Ghoi proposed tae kwon do as the new name for karate in Korea in 1955. The Koreans decided on tae soo do and eventually in the 1960's agreed with tae kwon do as the new name for Korean karate. My dad practiced Korean karate in the 1960's at the same time it was being converted to tae kwon do. The WTF invented a new way of doing the Japanese karate kicks,blocks.punches, forms and fightoing methos. It was still karate but with new names and new ways to perform the skills. By the 1970's the WTF style was actually a new art, not karate but a new Korean way of performing the forms/kicks/sparring etc.

 

You won't see the facts in any book about TKD because they do not want to give Japan any credit. The tang soo do people are more honest and admit that their art originated from Japanese karate.

 

The new WTF TKD is an actual Korean martial sport now in the Olympics. Tang soo do has maintained its martial art and does not stress sport.

 

I hope I do not offend anyone that has been taught that TKD is an ancient art. I had to research this topic for a college paper and a dan test.