Shotokan Sparring Stance

[cross]

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Edited April 7, 2005 by cross

[1st KYU]

i STRONGLEY urge you NOT to put your hands up like a boxer, the way they do it is correct.

 

boxing hand position is designed for boxing only, thier large padded gloves protect the face and absorb impact.

 

there is nothing to absorb the hit when you dont have gloves on. chaces are it will hurt just as much if not more.

[cross]

The boxing position puts the hands in a good position to attack and defend, weather that means deflecting, blocking, parrying, evading, and in the worst case scenario absorbing the blows on forearms/elbows/hands.

[Kaminari]

Nick_UKWC,

 

But I have to tell you, any highly experienced Karate-ka would know this as well. You get in too close, or come in not properly guarded for the entire body, and not maintain a proper sparring posture throughout, you are going to get absolutely nailed by any high level Karate-ka. You won't see it coming, it will just happen naturally.

 

Fuel for thought...

 

- Killer -

 

I totally agree with Killer here. You need your hands nearer your midsection to defend against both high and low strikes. Put your hands near your head and face, and you'll get nailed in the groin. Plus, 1st Kyu has a good point when he says there's no padding to absorb blows. Someone's just going to drive your own knuckles into your face by hitting your hands.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

-Kaminari

[cross]

Put your hands near your head and face, and you'll get nailed in the groin.

 

In terms of self defence situations the groin is not really the main target your average thug is going to aim for.

Someone's just going to drive your own knuckles into your face by hitting your hands

 

In the worst case scenario, yes. But thats better than not having your hands up there at all.

[Killer Miller]

In terms of self defense, if someone has their hands up in their face I will quickly snap to the groin. They will lower their guard at that time and I will nail them in the face. When they now put their hands up to their face, now the mid-section becomes open and then I nail them in the mid-section. Probably after that I will sweep them and send them to the ground with a punch waiting for them about the time they hit the ground.

 

Is the groing going to disable a person in self defence, not always. Will it cause them to lower their guard from the face, almost always. Now the real damage starts...

 

There's more to a technique than just killing a person with the first one. You almost always start with a technique that "applies shock." This is to chage the timing of the altercation or sparring match to the attacker's favor. Anotherwise, an oponent that attacks to tries to command the attack by controlling your body and breating timing. However, if you apply shock first, via a shock type of technique, you break your attacker or oponent's body and breathing timing to your favor to control the event. Now you clearly have an opening for a life threatening attack.

 

Now based on the aboe scenario, you get an experienced attacker and you are still guarding only your face, you are toast. You are not going to stand there and let someone repeatidly kick you in the groin. Ouch, that hurts!!! You will definately lower your guard to protect that area. When you do, your face is toast. When you try to cover your face because you can't see, then what ever they want to do at this point they can and you will be hurt really bad.

 

Now, had you kept your distance and properly guearded your mid-section, none of the above would have happened - or been drastically minimized... Also, I've seen the above happen many times as well as myself been a practioner of the above scenario.

 

Again, fuel for thought.

 

- Killer -

 

 

Put your hands near your head and face, and you'll get nailed in the groin.

 

In terms of self defence situations the groin is not really the main target your average thug is going to aim for.

Someone's just going to drive your own knuckles into your face by hitting your hands

 

In the worst case scenario, yes. But thats better than not having your hands up there at all.

[cross]

Now, had you kept your distance and properly guearded your mid-section, none of the above would have happened

 

Theres a big difference between a sparring situation and self-defence, obviously.

 

In sparring it may be a viable tactic to "keep your distance" and guard your mid-section waiting for your opponent to attack with a conventional technique.

In terms of self defense, if someone has their hands up in their face I will quickly snap to the groin

 

but in self defence your not going to wait for your opponent to attack, or just stand there with your hands up. Your going to be trying to talk your way out of the situation with your hands prefereable up and open in the "i dont want any trouble, i surrender" type position. Close your fists and your pretty much in a boxing position.

 

If your not talking your way out, the only other thing your doing is running, or attacking. If your opponent tries to attack you while your attacking it most probably wont be at full force let alone very effective (although it could be) and you shouldnt have much trouble defending:

 

1. Either your face with your hands,

 

2. Your mid-section with your forearms/elbows and even hands with sweeping type movements,

 

3. Or your groin and leg areas with your own legs/ footwork or hands in a sweeping fashion once again.

 

The "boxing" position is not just designed for protection of the face and upperbody but is used in conjunction with footwork, evasion, parries, etc etc etc to allow a strong defence of the whole body, while maintaining excillent protection of your head.

[Killer Miller]

Actually, there's no difference between a sparring situation and a real fight. A real fight is actually easier because very few have a respectable background in MA.

 

And in terms of keeping a distance in a real fight versus a sparring situation, the same actually applies if you suspect a potential fight situation. However, if you truly understand body and breathing timing, you will definately know if someone is going to attack you before they actually do. A quick step back typically is all it takes for the agresser to know that you already know his physical intentions and they either back off, or they attack at that point. If they attack, you already have enough distance to properly react - and trust me, they were going to already attack you anyhow at this point.

 

I do say this from experience as well. Years ago there was a Bar called the "Gold Rush" that some friends owned - whom were also in our Karate Dojo at the time. It was your typical packed house meat market with bands and booze... I, and many of the other fellow Karate-ka would hang out there frequently - and some of us as a part time job as well. When a gang of bikers (not that I have anything against bikers) or other similar types would roll into the club, it was almost guarenteed trouble. It was sometimes like a stunt show on TV with people going through windows, etc. Also a side note, those days was where I got the nick-name of "Killer Miller" - but that's another story (actually a quite funny one too... If someone reminds me, I'll right a post on that story.). Anyhow, back to the point. When these guys would attack, you knew they were going to attack - and yes they did. If you were close as you say, you were toast. You block just your face, a table would be flying at you. You look like you want to box, threee guys would do belly flops on your head from table tops.

 

What I'm trying to say is that if someone is really going to fight you, they will absolutely let you know their intensions by their breathing or body actions. If they are going to fight you, you better be able to see everything that's going on and have PLENTY of DISTANCE - they mean business!!! The rest are pretty much all talk and have no intentions of fighting - and their body actions will reflect that as well. Now if you antagonize that situations and it develops into a fight, then you do not fully understand breathing/body timing, or you actually do want a fight in the first place. I've seen and been in plenty of nasty fights in my day (aside from karate venues - and all in self defense or protecting others) and they are very dangerous to say the least. Don't try to fool youself (not actually meaning you personally) with false hopes that MA of any type means didly squat in a real situation. But recognizing physical intentions, via MA training and understanding body and breathing timing, you will know how to avoid these situations and or keep your distance when needed.

 

I hope I didn't drift away from the original point, but I think I stayed with it...

 

- Killer -

[Garyu]

As I see in the photo n the way u guys describe, U guys seem to place ur fists in front of u in the boxing stlye right? Now, there's something I learn-- place tt kinda stance and one front kick from the opponent to ur fists, and next thing u will find ur nose bleeding.

 

Seriously, there's really a huge difference between Sparring and Real Fighting. Sparring, there's rules right? No head, No groin. So what's the point of going into it. And I gotta agree that mid-section is rather hard to attack, if ur slow... Or else, tap the opponents' hands few times then just trust in a side kick or front kick into the torso.

 

And if u guys are talking about Real Street Fighting.. then who cares!! Just strike once on the head or the groin and the person will juz lay down straight. Anyway in sparring, once the groin is struck, at least about 50% of the fighter's strength and power will go down. That's when the fighter is most vulnerable.

 

So.. think one of the most effective stance, is just place one fist near the side of ur head, and the other to guard ur midsection. therefore, both arms can swing into action quickly without endangerin urselves. Im sure U guys noe about the " Guard-Ur-Head" Rule .. ??

[cross]

A real fight is actually easier because very few have a respectable background in MA.

 

Anything goes in a real fight, including random weapons, multiple opponents with multiple weapons. I dont see how that is easier than controlled sparring against a training partner.

And in terms of keeping a distance in a real fight versus a sparring situation, the same actually applies if you suspect a potential fight situation.

 

You can just as easily keep your distance with your hands around chin height which makes it alot easier to protect against everything from the sucker punch often prefered by the average joe to more controlled and well directed strikes from someone with more experience.

You block just your face, a table would be flying at you.

 

Your not blocking just your face in this position, you can protect the whole body.

You look like you want to box, threee guys would do belly flops on your head from table tops.

 

In this position you hardly look like you want to box, preferably your hands are open and extended from the body slighting so your not shaping up exactly like a boxer would.

If they are going to fight you, you better be able to see everything that's going on and have PLENTY of DISTANCE - they mean business!!!

 

You can still see everything in this position, your hands are at about chin height, not covering your eyes in any way. And i think i said this before but obviously having some distance between yourself and your opponent is favourable. This however is not always possible, in which case the hands up position is one of the best to be in allowing for ease in defence and attack.

 

I have to say im enjoying the information being thrown around in this topic, keep it going.